Survey: is the model Y the “perfect” all around EV?

[Chomlee]

yet, overwhelming majority of MY/MYP drivers don't have any issue with the how their MY/MYPs ride.

I’m on month 3 of MYP ownership and I will say I’m impressed with the actual ride compared to many bad reviews. I was also Leary because I switched from MYLR to P because of delivery timeframe.

Having said that, on normal flat roads here in Florida, the ride is quite nice. Yes a little stiff but relatively smooth. Only complaint was when I drove on 95 where a lot of construction and potholes existed, it was definitely bumpy.

Up north where there are many more potholes, I guess I can see some issues and would definitely have held on for a MYLR.

 

[sleepydoc]

yet, overwhelming majority of MY/MYP drivers don't have any issue with the how their MY/MYPs ride.

A significant number of people do have issues. (Everyone I’ve talked to in person has agreed that the ride is stiff and harsh, my wife who doesn’t care about such things at all complains about the ride. My 18 year old son spontaneously complained how bad the ride is and someone in the local tesla owners facebook group is actually selling their Y because they can’t stand the ride.) Even Tesla Bjorn noted how harsh the ride was.

Several weeks ago I was riding my crossover bike that has a front shock but nothing in the back on a road that I had driven earlier in the day and noted that it felt about the same.

I’m on month 3 of MYP ownership and I will say I’m impressed with the actual ride compared to many bad reviews. I was also Leary because I switched from MYLR to P because of delivery timeframe.

Having said that, on normal flat roads here in Florida, the ride is quite nice. Yes a little stiff but relatively smooth. Only complaint was when I drove on 95 where a lot of construction and potholes existed, it was definitely bumpy.

Up north where there are many more potholes, I guess I can see some issues and would definitely have held on for a MYLR.

On smooth pavement it rides beautifully, but the entire purpose of a suspension is to manage imperfections. In the winter in MN you get a bit of frost heave in the cracks in the asphalt that get perfectly telegraphed up your spine. It’s bad enough that I can’t drink my coffee on the way to work because it spills all over me.

Supposedly Tesla has made improvements in the suspension since it was first introduced, so it may well be that my suspension is worse than it is in newer models. I haven’t taken a side by side ride to compare.

 

[gx9901]

On smooth pavement it rides beautifully, but the entire purpose of a suspension is to manage imperfections. In the winter in MN you get a bit of frost heave in the cracks in the asphalt that get perfectly telegraphed up your spine. It’s bad enough that I can’t drink my coffee on the way to work because it spills all over me.

Supposedly Tesla has made improvements in the suspension since it was first introduced, so it may well be that my suspension is worse than it is in newer models. I haven’t taken a side by side ride to compare.

Hmm, I've always assumed the 2021 MY has the same suspension as the 2020, but I pretty much always have some sort of drink in my cupholder and a lot of times I'm drinking something while I'm driving (that doesn't sound quite right...) and I've never had an issue with too much vibration spilling liquid I'm trying to drink while the car is moving (I'm 21k miles into my MYP now). I wonder if the suspension was improved even in 2021? Don't get me wrong, I do agree that the MY has a very firm ride, but I've never had a problem with it myself and no one in my family has ever complained about rough ride, including my mom who's been driving luxury SUVs for a while now and currently have an Audi fat etron.

Anyway, a friend of mine has a 2020 that I have not ridden before, but he's driving me somewhere in a couple of weeks, and I also have a MY rental next month from Hertz for a vacation that I'm assuming is a 2022 (no idea though), so perhaps I will have some experience with the ride of all 3 model year of MY soon.

 

[sleepydoc]

Hmm, I've always assumed the 2021 MY has the same suspension as the 2020, but I pretty much always have some sort of drink in my cupholder and a lot of times I'm drinking something while I'm driving (that doesn't sound quite right...) and I've never had an issue with too much vibration spilling liquid I'm trying to drink while the car is moving (I'm 21k miles into my MYP now). I wonder if the suspension was improved even in 2021? Don't get me wrong, I do agree that the MY has a very firm ride, but I've never had a problem with it myself and no one in my family has ever complained about rough ride, including my mom who's been driving luxury SUVs for a while now and currently have an Audi fat etron.

Anyway, a friend of mine has a 2020 that I have not ridden before, but he's driving me somewhere in a couple of weeks, and I also have a MY rental next month from Hertz for a vacation that I'm assuming is a 2022 (no idea though), so perhaps I will have some experience with the ride of all 3 model year of MY soon.

It’s also possible that my suspension is in some way defective or adjusted improperly. I haven’t had the service center look at it but I’m virtually certain they would say it’s ‘within spec.’ Regardless, my advice to anyone is to take a test drive on a variety of road surfaces. If you’re happy with the ride, awesome!

On the topic of this thread, the ‘perfect’ SUV, the ‘perfect’ ride is subjective based on needs, driving styles, etc. If you want a small SUV you can take to the track where handling trumps comfort, the suspension is perfect. If you are driving to work and picking up groceries and the kids then it’s much stiffer than it needs to be. If you have back problems (or want to drink your coffee on a MN road in the winter!) it’s not the right car for you.

 

[juli1]

So here I am on month 3 of my MYP. Many things I wasn’t sure about I am now very used to and in some cases prefer (such as no braking). I am an engineer and I find myself constantly looking around the vehicle and seeing how it’s just simple, built efficiently, fun to drive, and literally checks all the boxes for most people in terms of roominess and comfort.

I used to think my old for fusion energi was the “perfect car” until my battery lost 25% capacity in the first year. Hence why I was not even going to consider the mustang (which I thought looked great BTW).

The range on this thing is much better than what I expected from the reviews but I live in Florida where it’s warm and flat so I could see why others might have different opinions.

What impresses me most is when I look at how Tesla has designed this thing so that they could put it together with ease and crank them out faster than any other experienced manufacturer is an unbelievable feat of engineering. Most big manufacturing companies lose 80% efficiency just from red tape and the structure of the business while Tesla is the opposite.

Am I overshooting on the statement on how this could just be the “perfect car”?

The car is really nice. My girlfriend just bought a Ioniq 5, and I can see how the Ioniq could also be seen as the "perfect vehicle": it's cheaper, quieter, is fun to drive, and has carplay.

Tesla wins on the charging network and autopilot but loses on build quality, customer services, and integration with other devices (carplay, android play).
Hyundai wins on customer service (we were able to drive the car before accepting delivery), integration, and build quality but loses on the charging network and autopilot.

We will see some really good products in the next few months. And the perfect car will depend on people's taste (e.g. do you want carplay or not). Competition is good for Tesla, and I hope they get better build and customer service.

 

[nate704]

The car is really nice. My girlfriend just bought a Ioniq 5, and I can see how the Ioniq could also be seen as the "perfect vehicle": it's cheaper, quieter, is fun to drive, and has carplay.

Tesla wins on the charging network and autopilot but loses on build quality, customer services, and integration with other devices (carplay, android play).
Hyundai wins on customer service (we were able to drive the car before accepting delivery), integration, and build quality but loses on the charging network and autopilot.

We will see some really good products in the next few months. And the perfect car will depend on people's taste (e.g. do you want carplay or not). Competition is good for Tesla, and I hope they get better build and customer service.

I don't find carplay/android auto adds any value to the car since their UI is very outdated with very limited function. Hyundai/Kia makes good quality cars, but they are all bland, meaning they try to offer everything, but the actual performance/quality falls way behind, such as HUD, infotainment system/software, mushy (yet comfortable for some people) and no real performance oriented suspension and steering setup, and yet not the most comfortable/luxury ride quality either.
Less efficiency, old design (pouch cells), less range, smaller interior volume, stealership network and experience, limited OTA updates, some requires stealership visits, gimmicky HDA2, subpar HUD and infotainment UI/software.
The only thing Hyundai/Kia has advantage is the initial exterior build quality, such as paint issues, panel gaps, but not by much.
Tesla needs to pick up the pace on their service network and quality, but I don't see any meaningful upgrade any time soon since their focus is more to sell more cars, and their vertical integration makes it challenging due to limited resources and manpower (it is extremely hard to find any mechanic these days).

 

[sleepydoc]

I don't find carplay/android auto adds any value to the car since their UI is very outdated with very limited function.

The problem with Tesla’s apps is their interface is often glitchy and not great and you’re limited to what Tesla offers. CarPlay actually does offer a nice feature tesla doesn’t - a combined display with the map, the current audio source and text messages or the calendar. Tesla’s messaging feature also can’t handle group messages.

Less efficiency, old design (pouch cells), less range, smaller interior volume, stealership network and experience, limited OTA updates,

Tesla has made a ton of innovations ‘under the hood’ in things like battery tech, OTA updates, etc that aren’t necessarily apparent at first blush. Tesla and its cars may have their faults but this is one of the reasons I like and support them.

Tesla needs to pick up the pace on their service network and quality, but I don't see any meaningful upgrade any time soon since their focus is more to sell more cars, and their vertical integration makes it challenging due to limited resources and manpower (it is extremely hard to find any mechanic these days).

Agreed. The dealership model has an incentive to provide better service but also an incentive to scam and get more money. The Tesla model is the reverse; they have no incentive to scam but there’s also less incentive for service. There are plenty of good service centers but plenty of bad ones, too. Tesla needs to tweak their system to encourage better service without going all the way back to the ‘old’ way.

 

[Chomlee]

Tesla wins on the charging network and autopilot

your forgetting the main reason I chose Tesla over the mustang or any other EV. They (Tesla) build their cars from the bottom up as an EV. Many of these other companies are taking their existing designs to fit whats needed to make it an ev. The battery technology of Tesla and how they do it is years ahead of everyone else. I’ve mentioned this in other posts but my ford fusion plug in lost 25% of its total battery capacity in just 2 years, and anything that dealt with the ev part of the car, the ford machanics had no idea what to look for.

 

[sleepydoc]

Another big plus for the Model Y that I forgot to mention - It has a ton of storage!

 

[sleepydoc]

I was just looking at the Genesis GV60. It’s not out yet and will have limited availability for a while but it looks like it will be some serious competition to the MY.

• Performance is about the same. It has ventilated seats, a built in sunroof shade, carplay/android auto and actual blind spot monitoring and rear cross traffic alert.
• Interior stying is more traditional. Style is a personal choice, either you like it or you don’t so I’m not going to say one is better than the other.
• The center screen is smaller on the GV60 but you have a traditionally placed speedometer and physical climate controls underneath Instead of everything being on a center touch screen, so it ends up being about the same, just configured differently. The actual usability of the interface is unknown.
• Range is shorter (~250 miles) than the MY but without some actual tests to compare real world range it’s hard to compare that directly. Other Hyundais have been less efficient that Teslas, though.
• Price is about the same.
• Ride quality is unknown
• Road noise is unknown
• storage space and interior room are unknown

 

[DrGriz]

I was just looking at the Genesis GV60. It’s not out yet and will have limited availability for a while but it looks like it will be some serious competition to the MY.

• Performance is about the same. It has ventilated seats, a built in sunroof shade, carplay/android auto and actual blind spot monitoring and rear cross traffic alert.
• Interior stying is more traditional. Style is a personal choice, either you like it or you don’t so I’m not going to say one is better than the other.
• The center screen is smaller on the GV60 but you have a traditionally placed speedometer and physical climate controls underneath Instead of everything being on a center touch screen, so it ends up being about the same, just configured differently. The actual usability of the interface is unknown.
• Range is shorter (~250 miles) than the MY but without some actual tests to compare real world range it’s hard to compare that directly. Other Hyundais have been less efficient that Teslas, though.
• Price is about the same.
• Ride quality is unknown
• Road noise is unknown
• storage space and interior room are unknown

The 80 mile range deficit, even if it is really 50 miles, is a show stopper for me.

Many of us who drive cars have been used to being able to drive 300-400 miles on a tank of gas and for EV initiates that 248 EPA range is going to cause hesitation. I know all of the arguments and rationalizations that would indicate you don't need 300-400 miles, but it's an emotional/gut response. People don't want to feel restricted.

I don't know why EV manufacturers haven't picked up on that.

 

[nate704]

GV60 Performance range: 235 miles
Hot/cold days with AC/Heat on highway use: around 100 mile range.

 

[Chomlee]

The 80 mile range deficit, even if it is really 50 miles, is a show stopper for me.

Many of us who drive cars have been used to being able to drive 300-400 miles on a tank of gas and for EV initiates that 248 EPA range is going to cause hesitation. I know all of the arguments and rationalizations that would indicate you don't need 300-400 miles, but it's an emotional/gut response. People don't want to feel restricted.

I don't know why EV manufacturers haven't picked up on that.

I totally agree. Ironically back around 2008 when EVs were starting to come our (such as the “bolt” which was originally supposed to be all electric), they were talking about 100 mile range, my thoughts even back then was that the magic number is 300 miles. Now that seems to be the ”standard” of what people want. If you enter the market and try to compete, you either need to be better (more miles) or a lot cheaper.

it’s funny, people don’t realize that we are witnessing a moment where someone has been able to to jump so many obstacles but at the same time rather than patenting his discoveries, he open sources everything. Out of stubbornness many are going in other directions and “surprise” can’t compete. Until some of these companies embrace some of the great methods Tesla has come up with, I think they will have a harder time.

open source is an interesting concept of progression. Makes me wonder what our life would be like today if it wasn’t for the likes of Elon musk or even more so, Linus Torvalds.

 

[sleepydoc]

The 80 mile range deficit, even if it is really 50 miles, is a show stopper for me.

Many of us who drive cars have been used to being able to drive 300-400 miles on a tank of gas and for EV initiates that 248 EPA range is going to cause hesitation. I know all of the arguments and rationalizations that would indicate you don't need 300-400 miles, but it's an emotional/gut response. People don't want to feel restricted.

I don't know why EV manufacturers haven't picked up on that.

I think it’s more of a psychological barrier than a practical one for many/most people. Not that that doesn’t count, the majority of people drive to work and run errands. It’s incredibly rare for me to drive more than 100-150 miles in a day. I typically charge when my MY gets less than 50% and I only need to charge it twice a week.

GV60 Performance range: 235 miles
Hot/cold days with AC/Heat on highway use: around 100 mile range.

After driving my MY in MN for 2 years I can say that your estimate of the range loss is grossly exaggerated. It definitely occurs, but is no where near the 60% loss you claim.

 

[DrGriz]

I think it’s more of a psychological barrier than a practical one for many/most people. Not that that doesn’t count, the majority of people drive to work and run errands. It’s incredibly rare for me to drive more than 100-150 miles in a day. I typically charge when my MY gets less than 50% and I only need to charge it twice a week.


After driving my MY in MN for 2 years I can say that your estimate of the range loss is grossly exaggerated. It definitely occurs, but is no where near the 60% loss you claim.

Oh, absolutely. But for us, 100 miles (from the nearest big city) in the winter, temps well below freezing, in the dark, in the wind, climbing 2 mountain passes of 2500 feet? 50% cell service coverage?

Might get stranded.

I know, just my unique perspective.

 

[bobbyjae]

I only charge my car once a week and have about 4k miles in a year of ownership. Probably not the norm but I am seeing more folks work hybrid so their weekly mileage has been cut in half.

 

[sleepydoc]

Oh, absolutely. But for us, 100 miles (from the nearest big city) in the winter, temps well below freezing, in the dark, in the wind, climbing 2 mountain passes of 2500 feet? 50% cell service coverage?

Might get stranded.

I know, just my unique perspective.

Yup - for you it matters and a car with a longer range is clearly a better choice. It all depends on your use case. Of course that's why there are so many different types of cars out there, too. No one would try to argue that a Toyota Yaris is a good choice for a contractor that's hauling all sorts of equipment and needs to tow a trailer yet no one tries to argue that they're useless either. That's why I find it so baffling when people find some case where a [insert EV here] isn't practical and use that to make the case that EVs are completely worthless.

 

[archae86]

I was disappointed and surprised to learn that my March 2022 Fremont-built model Y has nothing to speak of in the way of cargo tie-down points. Considering it is a "sort-of" SUV, and the large rear capacity, this is a shocking omission. My 2002 Audi A4 sedan is far better equipped in this respect. So was my 1987 BMW 325i.

I have read that Austin Ys got something in this regard, and hope for my successors' sake a good solution gets extended around the Tesla range soon.

Cargo tie-downs are a bit like range--useless most of the time, but I really want when I want.

 

[nate704]

After driving my MY in MN for 2 years I can say that your estimate of the range loss is grossly exaggerated. It definitely occurs, but is no where near the 60% loss you claim.

I charged my MYP to 90% 200 mile round trip on I-95 going between 80-100 mph with AC LO with fan speed 5.
2 Adults and 2 kids on heavy car seats. trunk/cargo full of bags, coolers, stroller, etc. 97-102F that day.
After we came back, I had about 6-8% left,
So, I used about 82%-84% from 90% initial charge.

For the GV60, advertised range is 235 miles, and 90% of that will be 211.5 miles, I am 100% that GV60 is less efficient than MY/MYP, so if we assume that GV60 has the same efficiency as MY/MYP and assume that I drive it the same way I did with the passengers, AC settings, and cargo, etc,, about 83% of that initial 90% charge will be around 175 miles.
175 miles will most likely not happen based on Ioniq5/EV6 numbers as well as heavier weight of GV60 (about 400-500 lbs heavier than My/MYP), and it is safe to assume that GV 60 can do around 135-150 in real life. I really hope someone can do the actual real life testing of highway summer/winter driving for its efficiency and range, so that I can come back here and say either "I told you so" or "Sorry I made horrible assumptions".

 

[Chomlee]

I charged my MYP to 90% 200 mile round trip on I-95 going between 80-100 mph with AC LO with fan speed 5.
2 Adults and 2 kids on heavy car seats. trunk/cargo full of bags, coolers, stroller, etc. 97-102F that day.
After we came back, I had about 6-8% left,
So, I used about 82%-84% from 90% initial charge.

sounds about right, that’s 83% of 80 (66.4 kWh). /200 and your looking at 332 whr/mile. Def expected when going 90. When on the highway, with my MYP, I tend to keep it at 75 and draft (not too close) when I can find a semi going 75+, it keeps my average around 280-290whr/m. Also, I have the 21” wheels fyi.