I think they'll have to make a real profit within the next 5 years. Their capital requirements for manufacturing, superchargers, service centers and sales centers will remain huge for the foreseeable future. Musk has said don't expect profits before 2020 and his forecasts are seldom met on time. They are being eventually met and his 2020 forecast was before the Model 3 order boom. I hope they make it and as an independent company, not gobbled up by a legacy auto company
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Speedeamon
Member
Any car can be damaged taking it off road. If someone then ignores maintenance checks and lets the ball joints or other suspension pieces then corrode, then the wheels will fall off. That's why most of the northeastern states require annual inspection. The first place to check for liability is where the OP took the car 2 weeks before the wheel coming off (which isn't Tesla) and who did the last required annual safety inspection (also not Tesla).
And of course, the driver has some responsibility to make sure his vehicle is in good working order such that he doesn't endanger himself, his passengers, or other people. The fact that this is corrosion makes it maintenance and safety inspection issue first.
I wanted to share my experience on a very minor car accident with Chevy Volt. My collision center initially thought it will take about 1 week to fix it, but it has been more than 4 weeks now and I still do not have my car with me. The collision center did n't know how to deal with the electrical on the volt. They had to have a local Chevy representative come to the collision center. The collision center guy could not figure out the electrical himself. The car was then towed away to the Chevy Dublin center. Then it had to be sent back to the collision center. I am still waiting and I have to rent a new car on my own now until I get this car as my insurance won't pay for more than 30 days.
I believe support and maintenance will be a problem not just for Tesla but for most EV manufacturers. In this case, Tesla has more control as it managed all service and repairs. Chevy has no direct responsibility for the repairs. Tesla owners should be proud that they have a company acknowledging and fixing these issues.
I cannot wait for Model 3 to get rid of my chevy volt. Tesla as an investment will have continue to have short term issues like this one. This is what the Tesla bears want and it's good for the media. In the long run, they are going to change the auto market. They will become smarter about dealing with issues as this one and also ensuring that the car can be reliable for more than 10 years like a Toyota or Honda.
I believe support and maintenance will be a problem not just for Tesla but for most EV manufacturers. In this case, Tesla has more control as it managed all service and repairs. Chevy has no direct responsibility for the repairs. Tesla owners should be proud that they have a company acknowledging and fixing these issues.
I cannot wait for Model 3 to get rid of my chevy volt. Tesla as an investment will have continue to have short term issues like this one. This is what the Tesla bears want and it's good for the media. In the long run, they are going to change the auto market. They will become smarter about dealing with issues as this one and also ensuring that the car can be reliable for more than 10 years like a Toyota or Honda.
Not if the seal on the joint is compromised and salt and corrosive elements enter the protected area and allowed to rust the parts for a significant period of time.
This is not uncommon. Things wear out on cars or get damaged through normal or abnormal use. No amount of design is going to ever eliminate that. This is why we have inspections and why people should be cognizant of new noises or behaviors from their car.
Honestly, if a driver can't accept or understand these things they shouldn't be driving ANY car because they are a danger to themselves and others.
Edit: @techmaven Jinx!
Respectfully, it appears you haven't read much about this particular incident. The answer to your question is "Yes" of course, but the scenario you suggest is far removed from what the original poster claimed.
jelloslug
Active Member
@techmaven,
Thank you for your detailed response. I'll give you,, that I didn't check Niedermeyer's participation in the 'Death watch' blog. So that part is only a minor mistake in the blog post.
But the crux of Tesla's argument in quickly dismissing this "very abnormal rust" (Tesla's own words in the post) hinges on excessive dirt road usage. And that no longer holds. So how can the rebuttal make sense anymore? Either Tesla shows that there was very abnormal dirt road usage, or it goes back and re-investigates the cause of this "very abnormal rust".
(And I'm not even bringing the issue of the car having been to service 2 weeks ago.)
Please see quote from WSJ below. Is this not correct? If so, please dispute the WSJ article directly.
Tesla Revises Customer Nondisclosure Pacts, Denies Suspension Flaw in Model S Car
BTW, Mr. Cordaro said, he owns (or owned) a fleet of 140 vehicles. So he is not a novice in car ownership. This fact can be very easily verified, so I don't see why he will lie about that.
I may not respond anymore. Trying to stay away from this forum obsession. Still keeping popcorn handy.
Thank you for your detailed response. I'll give you,, that I didn't check Niedermeyer's participation in the 'Death watch' blog. So that part is only a minor mistake in the blog post.
But the crux of Tesla's argument in quickly dismissing this "very abnormal rust" (Tesla's own words in the post) hinges on excessive dirt road usage. And that no longer holds. So how can the rebuttal make sense anymore? Either Tesla shows that there was very abnormal dirt road usage, or it goes back and re-investigates the cause of this "very abnormal rust".
(And I'm not even bringing the issue of the car having been to service 2 weeks ago.)
Please see quote from WSJ below. Is this not correct? If so, please dispute the WSJ article directly.
Tesla Revises Customer Nondisclosure Pacts, Denies Suspension Flaw in Model S Car
WSJ article said:
BTW, Mr. Cordaro said, he owns (or owned) a fleet of 140 vehicles. So he is not a novice in car ownership. This fact can be very easily verified, so I don't see why he will lie about that.
I may not respond anymore. Trying to stay away from this forum obsession. Still keeping popcorn handy.
What I'm thinking is this. Certain people, journos etc are shorting Tesla and trying to make some cash by the share price falling. OK cool. Well let's add this to the mix. I don't class myself as a Tesla fanboy. I do class myself as a car nut. I wear my Nissan GTR t-shirt with pride and I love Porsche - always have and always dreamed of owning one. But now, after driving the Leaf I will never buy another ICE car and once I can buy the Tesla Model III I will trade in my diesel and I'm all EV cars in the family.
Now here I get to my point. I'm buying a Model III, put down the $1500 sight unseen. I'm crunching the numbers on the new cheaper Model S 60 as a $20K discount might put it in reach of a lease for me. So no matter what these tweakers say, no matter how short they go I'm buying Tesla. I'm buying the III, I'm buying an X hopefully (through a work lease), I hope I can buy a second hand S. I'm going to buy Tesla from now on, even if Porsche does bring out a full EV - mainly because I won't be able to afford one but also because I don't think they'll be as good as a Tesla. And I want to support and reward Tesla. So even if the control arm on my Model III falls off after 70,000 km's (I do live down a dirt road) I'll get it fixed and enjoy driving it and buy another one as well. Since every article keeps referencing this thread then hopefully this will push the stock price up. I mean short of Elon turning up drunk at my house and peeing in my garden and wanting to borrow my car to get home........actually then I think I'd probably invite him in and buy another Tesla, or shares, or a powerwall, or whatever.
Now here I get to my point. I'm buying a Model III, put down the $1500 sight unseen. I'm crunching the numbers on the new cheaper Model S 60 as a $20K discount might put it in reach of a lease for me. So no matter what these tweakers say, no matter how short they go I'm buying Tesla. I'm buying the III, I'm buying an X hopefully (through a work lease), I hope I can buy a second hand S. I'm going to buy Tesla from now on, even if Porsche does bring out a full EV - mainly because I won't be able to afford one but also because I don't think they'll be as good as a Tesla. And I want to support and reward Tesla. So even if the control arm on my Model III falls off after 70,000 km's (I do live down a dirt road) I'll get it fixed and enjoy driving it and buy another one as well. Since every article keeps referencing this thread then hopefully this will push the stock price up. I mean short of Elon turning up drunk at my house and peeing in my garden and wanting to borrow my car to get home........actually then I think I'd probably invite him in and buy another Tesla, or shares, or a powerwall, or whatever.
I am wondering whether any of these 140 vehicles had any troubles with the suspension..., you know, ... because of the unusual use pattern...
It is abnormal rust level, but not that it hinges on excessive dirt road usage. That dirt road usage dramatically increases the chance of damage, and such damage, unchecked, will cause the ball joint to fail. It is still unusual, and it is up to the driver and/or owner of the vehicle to make sure that the vehicle has had proper maintenance and is in good operating condition.
Also, the OP never told us who did the last PA safety inspection and when. It clearly wasn't Tesla since Tesla can't do it in PA. Why hasn't the OP gone after those folks? This is a safety issue!
Well, on post #180 Mr. Cordaro wrote, "The car was never used as an off road vehicle" in this thread. Clearly a lie. He's gone off road once, twice, or 7 or 8 times. Why would we believe anything he says at this point?
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They should rewrite it to:
The blog post still makes perfect sense. In some way or other, the owner has a use case which leads to unusual wear and tear. It's unlikely we'll ever know exactly what action by the owner led to the damage to the ball joints, but it doesn't much matter. The car was out of warranty ages ago, and there are no indications that this is an issue beyond this vehicle.
You're welcome.I just wanted to thank you not only for elaborating on the road conditions, but also for the links in Norwegian. To a Dane, it is refreshing to read this different, yet understandable language.
The roads are definitely at their worst in spring. Not only do you have issues with the thawing ground and ice melting, but almost no road maintenance is done during the winter, so you have a few month backlog of pending repairs. Over the summer they lay down all the planned new asphalt and do patchwork repairs wherever necessary, so in autumn the road surfaces are pretty good - then winter comes along and destroys them again.
The OP was asked several times (once right after posting here) to provide documentation for his most recent inspection, but has so far not done so. So while he initially came across as a normal Tesla user who had experienced a QC issue and less than expected goodwill from Tesla, he now looks like a cheapskate - and one that appealed for support here without laying down all the facts.
So you have an opportunity to manage better than he did.
PS. The Model S has a 50.000 mile warranty (or 4 years, whichever comes first). So you would actually be covered at 70000 km (if you did them in less than 4 years).
PPS. On the speculation regarding the OP's Tesla being for sale, I would guess no: If he will not spend money on basic maintenance, then the Tesla should provide him with the best value for money. Even if he by now has zero goodwill with Tesla - that could also be the case with his traditional, local dealerships...
Just to mention it, the initial reporting concerning the phase-out of the fossil cars was a bit sketchy. There were some articles strongly implying that a ban was agreed upon, before anything was official, and then after some politicians went out in the media clarifying the issue, the articles became more accurate. Musk reacted on the best available data, which is completely understandable.
But regarding this issue, it's entirely possible that there will be a ban in 2025. One of the current ruling parties will never agree to that, but we are a few elections away from 2025, so that may change. Until a ban is agreed upon, the current working plan is to phase out fossil cars with the carrot-and-stick-method. Fossil cars will become progressively more expensive, and the BEVs will remain the most economically attractive choice.
NeverFollow
Active Member
Looking at the picture of the ball joint, it doesn't seems that the problem had occurred overnight.
During those 3 years and 73,000 miles, how often does your MS was serviced?
In particular how many times did you changed your tires, get an alignment, got new breaks, or simply rotated your tires?
I just wonder why this defect has not been detected earlier?
Please stop. Even Tesla have pulled this line.
In EuroNCAP testing the Model S is not the safest overall for occupancy safety. It's safer in some crash types, and less safe in others.
Repeating Tesla-lore, helps no-one and is easy to disprove. Better to just be balanced and say it's a very safe car, even if it has a lower overall score than some of the other cars in class that have been released since.
Anyway back on topic, my car had it's suspension worked on at around 9,000 miles for a TSB of rubbing of the lower arms (something I hadn't noticed, but happened when the techs noticed unusual contact marks at annual service). The car is currently back in the shop and getting some work done on .
I reported a number of issues to my SC about a month ago before this blew up, and one of the issues is a clicking in the suspension, it's minor but I wanted everything fixing in one go (it's a big list unfortunately). The car is almost two years old and only done 14k miles.
I live in the UK and we do salt the roads here. I will post back what gets done to the car, but if mine too needs replacement, then it would suggest age related corrosion rather than mileage.
I do know that any car going in right now from the UK launch batch are having a number of TSB's done. Battery heater and replacement HV lines (this was listed in my job sheet too). No idea what is up with those parts as I've not noticed any problems charging, or battery wise.
Meanwhile I've got an Infiniti Q50 loaner
Horrible car, and no better way than to make me forget some of the S's shortcomings 
I agree. Tesla has relied on owners to carry on the message and I think it's time to step up and control the narrative like all big boys do. There are too many players throwing shade for Tesla to be reactive. Instead of "there is no issue with our suspension" they should talk about car's handling, attention to safety, material science, best issue tracking in the business and constant improvements. When nthsa is examining claims Tesla should announce that, say that they cooperating and always care about safety- why wait for trolls to turn it into something nefarious.
I hope Tesla will grow up and realize that they are giving up narrative to those who shout the loudest, our beloved trolls.
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