Xenoilphobe
Well-Known Member
Too bad GE made them, if TRANE or another reputable brand had built this, they would still be making them...
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Tankless water heaters are terrible....
- Thread starter nwdiver
- Start date
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- Energy Environment Policy
Rheem it is... I was unaware that the GeoSpring had been discontinued. Mine developed a refrigerant leak. The quality is poor. Which is frustrating because it's not a complicated device. My sister has a Rheem heat pump and it appears to be doing really well. They replaced a propane water heater.
The primary complaint against heat pump water heaters doesn't apply to most people. The majority of water heaters are either in a garage or a utility space where noise isn't a concern.
They're expensive but this is the premier heat pump... no noise issues here... the compressor is outside...
20+ years ago when PV was ~$10/w solar thermal made a lot of sense... today depending on location it's almost cheaper to install PV and have electric resistance heating. It is frustrating that commercially available heat pump water heaters have such a high operating temperature... heat pumps should have a COP of ~2 down to 0F. I know the GE model used R134a... cheap but probably not the best choice for that application. As this type of water heater gains acceptance hopefully we'll see some R410a models that have better performance.
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JimmyAZ
Member
I agree! We have a master bathroom shower that can use when the rainhead is opened up about 13GPM. Not that we use that day-to-day, but it's nice when you want it. Our regular water heater would have been empty in about 3 minutes. The tankless (Rinnai) has been a lifesaver for us. Having normal showers while the dishwasher and laundry are going without any concern of running out of hot water is a luxury I'm not ever going to live without if we can avoid it. Ours is also gas and costs pennies to run. Plus, when we're both traveling for work, it doesn't make sense to have a tank heater storing hot water for weeks at a time with no one using it.
Btw, I think that Model 3 ad from the OP is absurd. It seems like snake oil to me. It uses electrodes even though they say it's heated by the water itself. Maybe it's a game changer, but my BS alarm is going off so they would never get in the front door.
We have a water softener and whole house filter installed upstream of it, so we don't flush it that often. We had a plumber come by the first time to do the flush for us and he said that because we had the water softener we could go longer between flushes (honestly we haven't been keeping up with it at all). Its been 6.5 years since we bought the place and haven't had any issues with it. Ours is a Rheem.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
PV+heat_pump is hard to beat throughout large swaths of the US but I think they can be made to perform much better when integrated into a smart home system that utilizes PV and ambient temperatures optimally.Rheem it is... I was unaware that the GeoSpring had been discontinued. Mine developed a refrigerant leak. The quality is poor. Which is frustrating because it's not a complicated device. My sister has a Rheem heat pump and it appears to be doing really well. They replaced a propane water heater.
The primary complaint against heat pump water heaters doesn't apply to most people. The majority of water heaters are either in a garage or a utility space where noise isn't a concern.
They're expensive but this is the premier heat pump... no noise issues here... the compressor is outside...
20+ years ago when PV was ~$10/w solar thermal made a lot of sense... today depending on location it's almost cheaper to install PV and have electric resistance heating. It is frustrating that commercially available heat pump water heaters have such a high operating temperature... heat pumps should have a COP of ~2 down to 0F. I know the GE model used R134a... cheap but probably not the best choice for that application. As this type of water heater gains acceptance hopefully we'll see some R410a models that have better performance.
This is actually where the utility push to kill net metering is taking us: excess PV generation during the mid-afternoon will be used for hot water production, and building standards that improve insulation in the piping and tanks will round out a very good, clean and inexpensive system. In the Southwestern US for example, marginal PV panels addition to cover DHW is as little as 2 cents a kWh and I bet annual COP can approach 3.0. That works out to 20 cents for 30 kWh of heat energy (a therm equivalent). Even NatGas cannot compete.
Now if only building codes required heat exchangers in showers, we could really put to rest the national DHW budget.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
Interesting that they show the Red top and talk about the first one off the line. I have one but mine has the original black top before the redesign.
I have a propane-fired tankless system for my whole house. I cannot say it has been a good system. It does not respond well to variable demand. It works fine when there is sufficient flow of water, but for a small usage case, such as when I wash my hands, sometimes it doesn't even turn on. It has been adjusted no fewer than 10 times by the installer. The last suggestion was to remove all the water flow restrictors on the fixtures.
I will be replacing it with a tank.
I will be replacing it with a tank.
gabeincal
Active Member
Hang on, i'm confused. We are debating whether we charge at 50 amps or 100 amps in our garages but we have a problem on how much stress a water heater is putting on the grid...?
I think the discussions are related. My tankless electric heater can draw 18kw or more when it's running full blast, so we are talking about a decent amount of power, however, as much discussed in this thread there are other options for water heaters that still produce hot water without such demand on the grid.
Electric cars also can stress the grid, but other than simply charging slower there aren't really any other options. If you can reduce the stress on the grid from water heaters then there will be more power available to charge cars.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
I replaced an electric tank water heater at an office building I own with a tankless.
I monitored the electric consumption on that circuit before and after the change. The tankless uses less than half the electricity of the tank so there is significant savings. You do lose a lot of heat from the tank (it did have an extra insulating blanket).
gabeincal
Active Member
Typical usage? How old was the replaced unit? Obviously if you're only using hot water once a week it's silly to store it. Most heaters are used daily... Older heaters did lack sufficient insulation... newer models have ~3" of foam... It's also possible your old tank was installed incorrectly, hot water rises and its possible to establish a thermal siphon and you can waste A LOT that way. This is easily prevented with a 'loop seal'.
... Most people will do significantly better with a heat pump...
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I use a monitor from brultech. The greeneye is their current monitor and it looks great, but I'm using two of their older ECM-1240 units since the greeneye didn't exist at the time I made my purchase.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
The office is used just Monday to Friday business hours so the tank spent a lot of time just cooling.
At home I added an apartment above the garage and put a GE heat pump in the garage. Has worked well for a year but disappointed to hear they DCd the unit. I did get a good deal on it.
For the tankless water heater, as it's the only gas appliance other than heating, in the months that don't use heat, I just use the gas bill. 99% of the gas bill is the connection charge. I'd never go with a tank type water heater again. When it comes time for replacement, I'll likely go with an electric one to get rid of another gas consuming appliance.
I was considering an electric water heater. Even with the S75, I still have excess solar power generation after charging. After calculating the water demand flow rate, it appears that I required 2 - 50 amp breakers for the system I wanted. The deal breaker (no pun intended) were the 2 - 50 amp breakers required to install the thing. My main panel is getting kinda full, so I opted not to go through the additional expense of upgrading. Besides, NG is still pretty cheap here.
My average NG bill fluctuates between $11 - $15/month. If it gets chilly, I breakout a couple of electric space heaters (1200w each). Not pretty but does the job. Monthly electric and NG bills run less than $20. The utilities hate me and are always snooping around the house to see if I'm scamming them.
My average NG bill fluctuates between $11 - $15/month. If it gets chilly, I breakout a couple of electric space heaters (1200w each). Not pretty but does the job. Monthly electric and NG bills run less than $20. The utilities hate me and are always snooping around the house to see if I'm scamming them.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Your Sig says "6.6 kW, Solar Array, 24-LG Mono X Panels/SolarEdge Optimizers/Inverter - 12.6 MWh Annual Production"
That is really great production from the array -- around 1.91 KWH per annum*watt
I didn't know it was possible without sun tracking. What are your tricks ?
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