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Tesla Alternative?
- Thread starter GarethWhyte
- Start date
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Hehehehe ... we are doing everything we can, and have been for decades, to screw manufacturing. I can't imagine anyone wanting to make cars here, now we have left the EU.
A possible upside is that we will, hopefully, have boundless electricity from all the wind turbines in the North Sea. No one in the UK wants them "in my back yard", so putting them out at sea is a much more popular idea. Until they want to run pylons across the beautiful countryside to carry that juice to where populations live.
The area, knows as "Dogger Bank", is in middle of the North Sea about 80 miles off the coast, has an area of about 7,000 sq.miles and water is only 50-120feet deep - what's not to like?. I think that will attract energy-intensive industry to our shores for our cheap electricity - except that currently we link the price of Electricity to the cost of generation using Gas-turbine peaker-plants (or something archaic like that - VERY British thing to do, of course <sigh>) even though they are being made redundant by all the people in this forum having PowerWalls/etc. who have all done a deal with Octopus Energy whereby they charge their batteries overnight, on excess North Sea juice, and discharge them during the day for a reasonable profit.
Your lot did the same ... e.g. outsourced call centres to "anywhere cheap". For some reason many of them have come back on-shore. CEO changed probably, and the new one did some sums on the back of an envelope.
We are also deciding that we want to drill for more oil, and push back green initiatives for an additional decade ... or maybe two. Election Term here is 5 years, and half way through panic sets in so all the sensible plans are then out-the-window. The daft thing is that it will be impossible to buy a fossil fuel car in a few years time, so pushing back the deadlines will turn out to be useless. Same thing with your school busses ... I think I read that is being mandated in something like 12 years ... whereas the lifetime of a school bus is about 12 years. So if all new ones were EV, with perhaps some financial help to buy them (I mean, they've got to replace the thing anyway, so at worst they just need difference between cost of "Fossil Bus" and "EV Bus"). Then they could be expected to pay back the saving on Fuel, and also if they do V2G any profits they make on that; the things are stationary a lot of the time, certainly during the evening "Came home, turned the lights on and started cooking" peak, and 24/7 during school holidays and at weekends etc. I reckon government would wind up with a tidy profit ...
I reckon what Biden has done is smart. Huge incentives, available to anyone that makes their cars in your country ... so VW can build a factory, and get the incentives too ... but then they employ local people, stimulate the local economy and 3rd party suppliers, AND pay local taxes. I'll be very surprised if the long term outcome isn't neutral, or even "some profit", which has got to be a lot better than empowering foreign nations to hold you to ransom.
But I'm an armchair viewer of USA politics, and I would expect the locals to have a more nuanced view.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Blimey, has that only just happened? We've allowed foreign money to buy all our Family Silver long ago.
I thought they were all out on strike and had stopped making any cars?
Watts_Up
Well-Known Member
I would recommend watching this new Muro Live review of the Genesis GV60 with intersting new features such as:
- Facial recognition and finger touch like a phone (but in winter when wearing gloves tis might not be so practical).
- Facial recognition and finger touch like a phone (but in winter when wearing gloves tis might not be so practical).
Anyone got Elon’s number? Could really do with another decent sized vehicle in the house for assorted lugging duties so a limited run of new RHD model Xs (or cybertrucks!) would be most welcome.
Low probability I know. I may have to opt for the EV9 if not
www.autocar.co.uk
Low probability I know. I may have to opt for the EV9 if not
Kia EV9 review | Autocar
By venturing into luxury SUVs, has Kia bitten off more than it can chew?
The reviewer really liked the EV9. He did mention that wind and road noise was overly intrusive so Tesla drivers should feel right at homeAnyone got Elon’s number? Could really do with another decent sized vehicle in the house for assorted lugging duties so a limited run of new RHD model Xs (or cybertrucks!) would be most welcome.
Low probability I know. I may have to opt for the EV9 if not
Kia EV9 review | Autocar
By venturing into luxury SUVs, has Kia bitten off more than it can chew?
I was driving 120 MPH in my 2023 MYP and was amazed at how quite it was. My previous vehicle was a brick in the wind, 2016 Wrangler.The reviewer really liked the EV9. He did mention that wind and road noise was overly intrusive so Tesla drivers should feel right at home
Tesla has amazing drag coefficient numbers and whisper quite.
I saw the EV9 in person, not bad, R1S is way better looking, but both are bricks in the wind.
Haven't got time to read thru 60 pages, so this may have been said before.
Alternatives - before you buy - compare:
With Octopus IO. cost/mile is down in the weeds (2p/mile). For a Tesla. Can other EV's even join IO?
1.My usage rate is £250/12000 miles per year. GOB SMACKING.
[My petrol for same distance on my Audi s3 is £1460. and for my RR is £2700].
2.NO annual servicing charges. compared to over £1000/yr on the others.
3. No breakdown cover charges for 4 years.
4. Warranty for 4 years.
5. Battery cover is 120k/8 yrs.
6. Still one of the the most advanced battery designs around.
7. One of the lowest Cd.
8. 0-60 sub 4 seconds.
9. KUDOS
Alternatives - before you buy - compare:
With Octopus IO. cost/mile is down in the weeds (2p/mile). For a Tesla. Can other EV's even join IO?
1.My usage rate is £250/12000 miles per year. GOB SMACKING.
[My petrol for same distance on my Audi s3 is £1460. and for my RR is £2700].
2.NO annual servicing charges. compared to over £1000/yr on the others.
3. No breakdown cover charges for 4 years.
4. Warranty for 4 years.
5. Battery cover is 120k/8 yrs.
6. Still one of the the most advanced battery designs around.
7. One of the lowest Cd.
8. 0-60 sub 4 seconds.
9. KUDOS
MrBadger
Badger out
1. Any EV can join IO. Pretty much any EV can give very low mileage costs.
2. No fixed service schedule but car still needs servicing. Very few independent garages will Service a Tesla. A few areas on a Tesla look like they will require significant potentially non warranty work far more frequently than you would expect a normal car to need, if ever. Our average annual service cost over 4 years is fractionally lower to that of previous ICE but would have been more had covid not limited our mileage in early years as a big warranty item would likely have fallen out of warranty.
3. Tesla is far from comprehensive breakdown cover - try not to breakdown/flat tyre outside office hours or too far from a service centre or for a non warranty reason.
4. 4years/50k miles
5. and 100k/8ywars on smaller battery
6. Yep
7. who cares as long as the car has the range/cost to run you need
8. How many people really care or get chance to safely use it. Many other cars still have decent acceleration even if they don’t give you bragging rights down the pub/over the dinner table.
9. Over promise/under deliver and lots of false/misleading/unfulfilled claims
10. Every other car around here seems to be a BMW, JLR, Audi, Toyota or Hyundai/Kia or white Tesla so not even any semblance of being special any more.
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I don’t think there’s a car in existence that’s “whisper quiet” at 120mph, and if there is it certainly isn’t an MY.
@MrBadger answered your points pretty comprehensively but in addition:
4. Other companies offer longer warranties. Kia’s is 7 years or 100k miles.
9. I presume you were joking?
10. Teslas are not as comfortable or refined as a car in this price range should be.
11. Crap auto lights - not even matrix
12. Crap auto wipers
13. Removal of USS, Vision is crap
14. Removal of USS has disabled auto park
15. Removal of USS has disabled Summon
16. Removal of stalks is clearly not popular
17. Most Tesla software is in seemingly permanent beta
18. Seats are not nearly supportive enough for a car of this performance
Ok But the topic is not why are teslas shyte. What is the alternative?
Personally, If I thought there was a good alternative for my needs, you wouldn't find me here moaning about what Ive got. Life is too short.
In the interests of impartiality you might also want to point out that the topic isn’t why Tesla’s are great either. Let’s not be too one sided.
...Just saying.MrBadger - thanks for the response.
In reply:
1. Incorrect - IO does NOT accept 'any' EV. MG's are not accepted. neither are MG's accepted on any of Tesla's Superchargers?
2. Rubbish and rubbish. You don't own a Tesla so you can't comment. NO COMPULSORY SERVICING REQUIRED. Now why is that if "you" think certain areas could cause problems more frequently in future? How long do we have to wait? They've been in the UK since 2016. Another 7 years perhaps?
Has your Main Dealer told you - you need an annual service? Ask them why? I did? I asked JLR when I was looking at the I Pace.....well, um, um, it needs, um new filters and um wipers need checking, consumables and erm, topping up fluids. So it's essential you keep coming to us for the annual service and I can assure you sir, it won't cost more than £300/yr???
"...Our average annual service cost over 4 years is fractionally lower to that of previous ICE but would have been more..."
I bet that is the other side of £1000 over the 4 years, yes? Tesla equivalent: big fat ZERO.
"...try not to breakdown/flat tyre outside office hours or too far from a service centre or for a non warranty reason..."
For starters, the Tesla Roadside Assistance is free under warranty.
No warranty - no breakdown assist. Isn't that the same as all cars? You then rely on a 'normal' call out company??? (EV or ICE). So I don't understand your criticism.
7. Because the Cd is so low - it requires less power from the batteries to propel it, allowing that residual powerto be used elsewhere. What is the range advertised/real for your car (what car is it?). How reliable is the network charging stations. Do you suffer from range anxiety, I know both my neighbours do: I-Pace and Cupra. How often do you have to charge it?
8. If you've been a petrol head for decades as I was - power comes into the equation and my Tesla M3 is faster than my old Merc SL55 AMG 5ltr 560hp ever was in terms of accel. Tesla accel is most definitely the BEST in the world [ M3P, M3AB, Plaid etc]. Best IN THE WORLD. And this is thrown in with the ridiculous prices we see for Tesla's these days. Madness.
10. Kudos I said not special. Kudos because Tesla set the scene for all other EV's to follow. Most car manufcaturers hate Musk for being a disruptor. He waltzed into the car industry with no background and shook it by its Bo""ocks.
The entire indaustry has benefitted ever since.
Best most advanced batteries in the world = Tesla, especially the Li-Ion PH coming out now in the new M3's [1 million mile expected shelf life, compared to what we see now! 100, 000 charging cycles compared to most others offering <5000. No time frames for recharging. It's a few minutes at most. Always charge to 100% - battery loves it.
GigaCasting - the ONLY car company in the world which can make a car like the M3 out of 3 parts only! Reducing the cost by 40% much of which is passed onto the consumer. It goes on. Tesla sets the EV marque. KUDOS to the man and the product.
Look it up! [Li-Ion.Ph and Gigacasting] Toyota who are busy trying to catch up are now copying what Musk has already done and pretending they've been working on it for years!!!
Hurricane
11 and 12: you are scraping the barrell.
13, 14, 15: These are advanced concepts offered as options, they are not part of the basic car. They ALL work they have been tested to destruction. It is national regs which don't allow them to be used because they are years behind the technology and infrastructure -duh!
17: only options are in beta. for reasons above.
18: you are repeating yourself (10).
So let's address: is there an alternative: of course there is!
BUT it's subjective isn't it.
If I want more luxury in a price comparative car.
A more comprehensive ergonomic feel to the cockpit.
If I hate american car manufacturers.
If I hate the dreadful limited choice of colours,
If I hate the looks.
I looked at dozens.
Short list: I-Pace / Cupra / Tesla
The rest are rubbish mainly because they are too expensive / dreadful range / ICE's dressed up as EV's.
Normally most manufacturers will catch up with Tesla (EV6 is a good example), but they all forget one thing. This is Elon Musk we're talking about not just another car manufacturer - he will always outpace the market - KUDOS.
In reply:
1. Incorrect - IO does NOT accept 'any' EV. MG's are not accepted. neither are MG's accepted on any of Tesla's Superchargers?
2. Rubbish and rubbish. You don't own a Tesla so you can't comment. NO COMPULSORY SERVICING REQUIRED. Now why is that if "you" think certain areas could cause problems more frequently in future? How long do we have to wait? They've been in the UK since 2016. Another 7 years perhaps?
Has your Main Dealer told you - you need an annual service? Ask them why? I did? I asked JLR when I was looking at the I Pace.....well, um, um, it needs, um new filters and um wipers need checking, consumables and erm, topping up fluids. So it's essential you keep coming to us for the annual service and I can assure you sir, it won't cost more than £300/yr???
"...Our average annual service cost over 4 years is fractionally lower to that of previous ICE but would have been more..."
I bet that is the other side of £1000 over the 4 years, yes? Tesla equivalent: big fat ZERO.
"...try not to breakdown/flat tyre outside office hours or too far from a service centre or for a non warranty reason..."
For starters, the Tesla Roadside Assistance is free under warranty.
No warranty - no breakdown assist. Isn't that the same as all cars? You then rely on a 'normal' call out company??? (EV or ICE). So I don't understand your criticism.
7. Because the Cd is so low - it requires less power from the batteries to propel it, allowing that residual powerto be used elsewhere. What is the range advertised/real for your car (what car is it?). How reliable is the network charging stations. Do you suffer from range anxiety, I know both my neighbours do: I-Pace and Cupra. How often do you have to charge it?
8. If you've been a petrol head for decades as I was - power comes into the equation and my Tesla M3 is faster than my old Merc SL55 AMG 5ltr 560hp ever was in terms of accel. Tesla accel is most definitely the BEST in the world [ M3P, M3AB, Plaid etc]. Best IN THE WORLD. And this is thrown in with the ridiculous prices we see for Tesla's these days. Madness.
10. Kudos I said not special. Kudos because Tesla set the scene for all other EV's to follow. Most car manufcaturers hate Musk for being a disruptor. He waltzed into the car industry with no background and shook it by its Bo""ocks.
The entire indaustry has benefitted ever since.
Best most advanced batteries in the world = Tesla, especially the Li-Ion PH coming out now in the new M3's [1 million mile expected shelf life, compared to what we see now! 100, 000 charging cycles compared to most others offering <5000. No time frames for recharging. It's a few minutes at most. Always charge to 100% - battery loves it.
GigaCasting - the ONLY car company in the world which can make a car like the M3 out of 3 parts only! Reducing the cost by 40% much of which is passed onto the consumer. It goes on. Tesla sets the EV marque. KUDOS to the man and the product.
Look it up! [Li-Ion.Ph and Gigacasting] Toyota who are busy trying to catch up are now copying what Musk has already done and pretending they've been working on it for years!!!
Hurricane
11 and 12: you are scraping the barrell.
13, 14, 15: These are advanced concepts offered as options, they are not part of the basic car. They ALL work they have been tested to destruction. It is national regs which don't allow them to be used because they are years behind the technology and infrastructure -duh!
17: only options are in beta. for reasons above.
18: you are repeating yourself (10).
So let's address: is there an alternative: of course there is!
BUT it's subjective isn't it.
If I want more luxury in a price comparative car.
A more comprehensive ergonomic feel to the cockpit.
If I hate american car manufacturers.
If I hate the dreadful limited choice of colours,
If I hate the looks.
I looked at dozens.
Short list: I-Pace / Cupra / Tesla
The rest are rubbish mainly because they are too expensive / dreadful range / ICE's dressed up as EV's.
Normally most manufacturers will catch up with Tesla (EV6 is a good example), but they all forget one thing. This is Elon Musk we're talking about not just another car manufacturer - he will always outpace the market - KUDOS.
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