Tesla Alternative?

[12Pack]

Does look nice though. I do think it's lost something going to more traditional looking headlights.

They are now 32K pixel active matrix....

 

[FastLaneJB]

I have a Lotus Eletre R for about two weeks now and am in the process of rejecting it. The one I have has a few hardware issues, there’s some software also but the main reason is the range. When I ordered the car it was listed as 310 miles WLTP so was expecting around 220 - 240 miles similar to a Tesla Model 3 Performance, this is not the case.

Lotus has since I ordered without telling me, dropped the WLTP to 258 - 280 miles. Best I can get driving as a granny is 50kWh/100 miles which with the size of battery should be about 218 miles. However if you look at distance travelled vs battery used that doesn’t align so I don’t think that report covers all the power draw in the car, maybe just the drivetrain. So reality is if you drive it as a granny it’s 180 miles real world at around 10C in the flat part of the world I live in.

The car is unaware of its real range, as is the Sat Nav so I don’t trust it to get me to location even if I drive sensible. So yes I’m in discussions to return it at the moment.

I will say that the base / S do seem to put out far better range numbers than an R. The car has had so many compliments from random strangers, the suspension is right up there with what you’d get in a 7 series limo and it’s stupidly fast in R spec. To the point it cannot properly put its power down as you can imagine.

No idea what I’d pick next. We’ll be down to one car and can manage on that but it’s a pain, so will need to find something soonish. Going to try a Highland Model 3 on Friday as have a renewed appreciation for Tesla’s software and drive train. I’m a little bit wary now about the others. I mean Lotus and Volvo / Polestar is owned by Geely so could I trust a Polestar for instance or would it be similar issues.

 

[browellm]

I have a Lotus Eletre R for about two weeks now and am in the process of rejecting it. The one I have has a few hardware issues, there’s some software also but the main reason is the range. When I ordered the car it was listed as 310 miles WLTP so was expecting around 220 - 240 miles similar to a Tesla Model 3 Performance, this is not the case.

Lotus has since I ordered without telling me, dropped the WLTP to 258 - 280 miles. Best I can get driving as a granny is 50kWh/100 miles which with the size of battery should be about 218 miles. However if you look at distance travelled vs battery used that doesn’t align so I don’t think that report covers all the power draw in the car, maybe just the drivetrain. So reality is if you drive it as a granny it’s 180 miles real world at around 10C in the flat part of the world I live in.

The car is unaware of its real range, as is the Sat Nav so I don’t trust it to get me to location even if I drive sensible. So yes I’m in discussions to return it at the moment.

I will say that the base / S do seem to put out far better range numbers than an R. The car has had so many compliments from random strangers, the suspension is right up there with what you’d get in a 7 series limo and it’s stupidly fast in R spec. To the point it cannot properly put its power down as you can imagine.

No idea what I’d pick next. We’ll be down to one car and can manage on that but it’s a pain, so will need to find something soonish. Going to try a Highland Model 3 on Friday as have a renewed appreciation for Tesla’s software and drive train. I’m a little bit wary now about the others. I mean Lotus and Volvo / Polestar is owned by Geely so could I trust a Polestar for instance or would it be similar issues.

I haven't watched the full Harry's Garage review of the Eletre yet but I understand that was his main beef with it too.

Aside from the WLTP naughtiness you mentioned there, I do think it's time manufacturers stopped quoting Cd figures and start quoting Cd*A as a better indication to buyers about the impact of frontal area being fundamental to efficiency - and why honking great SUVs with low drag coefficients are NOT going to return great efficiency numbers.

 

[12Pack]

I haven't watched the full Harry's Garage review of the Eletre yet but I understand that was his main beef with it too.

Aside from the WLTP naughtiness you mentioned there, I do think it's time manufacturers stopped quoting Cd figures and start quoting Cd*A as a better indication to buyers about the impact of frontal area being fundamental to efficiency - and why honking great SUVs with low drag coefficients are NOT going to return great efficiency numbers.

Indeed the Cd calculation actually divides by the area to normalize it to be unitless. Actually we need to look at either Cd*A - or even just total drag D at a nominal speed.
Cd = D / (A * .5 * r * V^2)

 

[HaggisMan]

Indeed the Cd calculation actually divides by the area to normalize it to be unitless. Actually we need to look at either Cd*A - or even just total drag D at a nominal speed.
Cd = D / (A * .5 * r * V^2)

Pedant alert - think you forgot the density there but point still stands. I’ll let you off.

EDIT - no you didn’t. I’ve not had my lunch.

 

[MrBadger]

Indeed there are because they add height to the rear boot. But even with that they have "only" about 400 l with the rear seats up and 1100 l with them flat (compared to 745l and 1645l for an MS). And very tight for 3 in the rear seat - as well as half the space in the frunk.

What about this ?

 

[12Pack]

What about this ?

View attachment 1016155

Not sure about the range from the 50KWH battery - and lack of infotainment and rear seats. But I'd take the 2000hp

 

[MrBadger]

Not sure about the range from the 50KWH battery - and lack of infotainment and rear seats. But I'd take the 2000hp

Range shouldn’t be an issue as it comes with its own trailer and driver. Needed 3 of us to load it back on though as a bit tight…

Infotainment a bit minimalist but a few cushions on the rear aero might suffice for seating...

 

[Kvitravn]

Ok

What about this ?

View attachment 1016155

Judging from it's performance at Goodwood FOS the tire life might become an issue for some

 

[WannabeOwner]

if you drive it as a granny it’s 180 miles real world at around 10C in the flat part of the world I live in

Oh dear ...

The car is unaware of its real range, as is the Sat Nav

Oh dear ...

To the point it cannot properly put its power down as you can imagine.

Oh deary me

How come Plaid doesn't have a problem with putting its power down then? My Raven is only the cooking version (previous MS was Performance), have you had a problem getting power down with your Raven P? I never had a problem with launch, even launching at the lights on a roundabout and taking the first exit ... in the wet!

 

[rincewind]

I think you'll be impressed with the Highland - i was. And they now have adaptive headlights too

 

[FastLaneJB]

Oh dear ...



Oh dear ...



Oh deary me

How come Plaid doesn't have a problem with putting its power down then? My Raven is only the cooking version (previous MS was Performance), have you had a problem getting power down with your Raven P? I never had a problem with launch, even launching at the lights on a roundabout and taking the first exit ... in the wet!

So I’ve driven a Plaid just shortly on a test drive and it feels like it wants to start smoking all 4 tyres at once yet doesn’t quite. It’s a weird feeling but Tesla do a very good job of controlling the power output of the motors so it’s at maximum acceleration but not spinning the wheels.

Lotus seems more analog that you pressed the Go Baby Go pedal so you get it all. As it’s not trimotor and no rear differential, just wheel braking it’s struggling to control 600hp at the rear. 300hp on the fronts is also a problem once weight transfers to the rear on hard acceleration that you don’t have enough pressure on the front to not get torque steer.

 

[FastLaneJB]

I haven't watched the full Harry's Garage review of the Eletre yet but I understand that was his main beef with it too.

Aside from the WLTP naughtiness you mentioned there, I do think it's time manufacturers stopped quoting Cd figures and start quoting Cd*A as a better indication to buyers about the impact of frontal area being fundamental to efficiency - and why honking great SUVs with low drag coefficients are NOT going to return great efficiency numbers.

Yeah so Harry did have terrible figures as he had a 600hp S I think and those ones do seem like they get noticeably longer range than an R. Realistically you can spec all the R options onto an S like rear wheel steer, active anti-roll bars and so on. The only difference is the motor and I guess with it being a 2 speed vs single speed, its just not very efficient at all.

The one thing I generally like about EV’s is that unlike ICE cars you can add a lot of power without impacting range. The Plaid barely gets less range than a LR. The Lucid cars have a lot of power and amazing range. A Model 3 Performance range loss vs a LR is really just down to the wheels. You can have your cake and eat it basically.

Not so sadly in the Lotus though.

 

[WannabeOwner]

You can have your cake and eat it basically.

I like that too. Tootling along the motorway at 70 MPH same consumption as the others for that model, and then doing 0-60 in sub 3S from the lights

 

[FastLaneJB]

I like that too. Tootling along the motorway at 70 MPH same consumption as the others for that model, and then doing 0-60 in sub 3S from the lights

Yes exactly that.

So many advantages to EV’s. The only one slight downside is range and charging times. Oh and outside of the car itself, the public charging infrastructure. All will sort out over time. Batteries will get more dense and hence longer range. They’ll charge quicker and public charging will improve.

I guess only other bug bears is not being able to charge to 100% but some chemistry’s you can so also think they’ll solve that. And battery degradation which might always be a thing but again I believe there’s some lab designs that have so little it’s almost unnoticeable.

Got to wonder what it might do for the car market if you could have a car that realistically might out live you if you didn’t fancy changing it.

 

[Adopado]

Got to wonder what it might do for the car market if you could have a car that realistically might out live you if you didn’t fancy changing it.

Looking back over the years I don’t think I ever scrapped a car because the engine was uneconomic to repair (though that does happen). It was either due to accident damage or an accumulation of corrosion affecting structure, suspension and braking systems. EVs will probably do a bit better but I see winter salt having much the same effect no matter what the drive train.

 

[FastLaneJB]

Looking back over the years I don’t think I ever scrapped a car because the engine was uneconomic to repair (though that does happen). It was either due to accident damage or an accumulation of corrosion affecting structure, suspension and braking systems. EVs will probably do a bit better but I see winter salt having much the same effect no matter what the drive train.

Winter salt sounds like a Scotland problem. Down here in the sunny uplands not so much.

I’ve never kept a car that long and of course rust could no doubt get it though modern cars I believe suffer less than older cars.

I mean when Tesla talk of a million mile battery and let’s say you do 15k miles a year. Low for some, high for others but that’s 66 years of motoring there if the rest of the car doesn’t fall apart.

It won’t happen. The tech and not the drive train will be too old. The car won’t connect the 12G mobile networks and people will be pissed off that you cannot charge at 1.21 Gigawatts so hold up the chargers.

 

[Adopado]

Winter salt sounds like a Scotland problem

Yes, certainly is in our vicinity! Just a hint of a frost and the salt goes down. I can’t go anywhere without driving through 15 miles of salty smush. My brakes are an embarrassment… I’ll look into getting them resurfaced this year. No snow on the road this year though…

 

[12Pack]

I like that too. Tootling along the motorway at 70 MPH same consumption as the others for that model, and then doing 0-60 in sub 3S from the lights

Indeed. That comes from the motor consuming power in direct proportion to its output. In a naturally aspirated ICE, more power required a larger engine, which then still consumes more fuel than a smaller engine even at lower revs. Of course, with the new turbo-charged ICE engines, which use turbos to boost the power on demand with a smaller engine - this is much improved. But still not to the level of a BEV.

Looking back over the years I don’t think I ever scrapped a car because the engine was uneconomic to repair (though that does happen). It was either due to accident damage or an accumulation of corrosion affecting structure, suspension and braking systems. EVs will probably do a bit better but I see winter salt having much the same effect no matter what the drive train.

Chances are that a BEV drivetrain will outlast the rest of the chassis. But advances in safety and infotainment technology could make a current EV car obsolete from a consumer usage perspective. Even if you preferred to use a Blackberry - the lack of current banking/travel apps have made them essentially obsolete.

 

[WannabeOwner]

. It was either due to accident damage or an accumulation of corrosion affecting structure, suspension and braking systems.

I mean when Tesla talk of a million mile battery and let’s say you do 15k miles a year. Low for some, high for others but that’s 66 years of motoring there if the rest of the car doesn’t fall apart.

Instead on "replace engine", as per ICE, maybe there will be a market for "Replace body" ?