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Tesla belatedly tries to make their connector a North American standard

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Did you see that network operators already have plans in motion to add NACS connectors to their sites? (So it is likely that NACS compatible plugs will continue to dwarf CCS Type 1 plugs going forward.) They need people to use their chargers to stay a-float, so they will want to attract all of the Teslas that they can, and by not requiring an adapter will make that easier.

I wonder if this is part of why EA moved to a single CCS cable on their next-gen stall design. (i.e. to make it easy to add a NACS cable to them.)
Personally I'll wait and see how those plans actually work out. Will it be similar to EVgo's use of the CHAdeMO adapter on a single station at many sites (that even then doesn't seem to work), or will it really be a full blown effort to open up all their stations to Teslas. Time will tell, but I know what my prediction is.

I agree that they will have an incentive to attract Teslas. But I base my comment on the assumption (which I think will be borne out) that in the coming years, Teslas will not be in the overwhelming majority they are today. I still think they will dominate the EV market, but they will not be the majority. This is inevitable in my opinion.
 
Tesla's supercharger network shows no signs of slowing down and always will be the best network, so I'm not sure I follow your train of thought. Can't see myself feeling any other way and wanting to use an inferior, oversized CCS connector at an inferior charging station with thick cables. My adapter will always be in the trunk for emergencies but 5 years from now the charging network will be so dense I can't foresee many emergencies anyways.
My train of thought is that in the future while Tesla may retain 20% or even 25% of EV market share (and thus still dominate the market), that leaves 75-80% of vehicles that are non-Tesla, and as a result, the numbers of charging station plugs will likely follow suite.

Yes, it will always be hard to beat the Supercharger network, but I bet the other networks come pretty close to mimicking it long term (even though they have a long way to go now). Even now I read post after post of people complaining about the high cost of Superchargers and are flocking to buy the CCS adapter so they can go to EA stations. Not me mind you (my car isn't even compatible), and probably not you, but what will the average person think about it when they go to buy a new vehicle? And will the need to carry (and use) an adapter in their trunk be enough of a barrier to hurt Tesla sales in the future?
 
Tesla's supercharger network shows no signs of slowing down and always will be the best network, so I'm not sure I follow your train of thought. Can't see myself feeling any other way and wanting to use an inferior, oversized CCS connector at an inferior charging station with thick cables. My adapter will always be in the trunk for emergencies but 5 years from now the charging network will be so dense I can't foresee many emergencies anyways.
This. I don’t imagine the SC network will shrink and it is already pretty darn good. I expect it will continue to improve the next five years and one will be able to find a SC in most locations. Other networks might be cheaper or available in some unique places and I’m happy for that, but it eases my mind that I will almost always have a SC nearby. In contrast, if I charged my 65 mile range Leaf anywhere but home for my short commute or owned any other EV that I planned to drive out of my home neighborhood, I’d probably be prepared for a less than stellar charging experience, at least for the next few years.
 
Interesting tidbit from the specs:

The North American Charging Standard is compatible with Vehicle to X (i.e. Vehicle to load, Vehicle to home, vehicle to grid) power transfer. Future versions of this technical specification will specify the functional requirements and specifications required to achieve vehicle to X power transfer.
 
The NACS standard doesn't include communications. I assume that J1772/CCS will be used for communication.

Yes it does include communications:

For DC charging, communication between the EV and EVSE shall be power line communication over the control pilot line as depicted in DIN 70121.

The North American Charging Standard is compatible with “plug and charge” as defined in ISO-15118.
 
My train of thought is that in the future while Tesla may retain 20% or even 25% of EV market share (and thus still dominate the market), that leaves 75-80% of vehicles that are non-Tesla, and as a result, the numbers of charging station plugs will likely follow suite. Yes, it will always be hard to beat the Supercharger network, but I bet the other networks come pretty close to mimicking it long term (even though they have a long way to go now).
Yes, but the Tesla Supercharger network will be always be there for me and everyone else to plug our NACS into. Why should I be worried about what everyone else is doing when I have the best already (even if other networks get better and are similar)?

Even now I read post after post of people complaining about the high cost of Superchargers and are flocking to buy the CCS adapter so they can go to EA stations.
I've only seen that out West and largely concentrated in CA. CA has a housing problem where people rely on Superchargers for daily driving which isn't practical or pragmatic. CA is an example of "how to do everything the wrong way" so I am very, very unbothered by whatever they do in the state as it pertains to any topic as it is always solely a CA issue (YMMV as this is my opinion of course).

Not me mind you (my car isn't even compatible), and probably not you, but what will the average person think about it when they go to buy a new vehicle? And will the need to carry (and use) an adapter in their trunk be enough of a barrier to hurt Tesla sales in the future?
I think you're looking at this backwards. Why would a new buyer worry about needing a CCS adapter in 5 years when the Tesla Supercharger network will be so incredibly dense by then? And why would a user want 14 different charging apps with 14 different payments methods and logins when they have the Tesla app that is seamless in every way?

IMO
 
Lower cost of coverage?

Maybe they think that by opening it up, they can get networks to include their plug on chargers deployed in low-density areas and concentrate on higher-density areas.

For example, there are RFPs out to install chargers in Northern Maine.

When I saw your post in this thread, my first thought was based on your user name. Not in relation to the post, but the thread itself. Your user name is " @ItsNotAboutTheMoney " but my thought was "but... it absolutely IS about the money, in this case" (lol).
 
Yep. This has nothing to do w/ altruism on Tesla's part. It is purely about Government Cheese.
I'm skeptical of that. There's already been significant reporting that Tesla intends to add CCS compatibility to its Supercharger network, which should enable Tesla to get US government subsidies. Making its newly-named NACS an open standard won't help with that, as far as I can tell. At best, it might, if and when other manufacturer(s) start using NACS; but AFAIK, only Aptera seems keen on NACS, and Aptera has yet to produce anything more than a prototype.
The NACS standard is just the connector, not the protocol. (All of those adapters would be passthrough, with the car/Supercharger having no way to know any adapters were in use.) So you can charge using the Tesla or CCS protocol over the NACS connector.

For example EA could add the NACS connector to their stalls and not have to change any software, at which point any CCS compatible Tesla could use the stall without the adapter. And assuming Tesla adds the CCS protocol to Superchargers, like they have done in Europe, other OEMs could add a NACS port to their vehicles with CCS capabilities and they could start using the Supercharger network without any adapter or software changes.
These are extremely important points. Assuming that Tesla has truly made the NACS details public in a no-strings-attached way, this makes it relatively easy (albeit not quite cost-free) for EA, EVgo, etc., to add NACS cables to their existing or future chargers and any CCS-enabled Tesla will be able to use that charger without an adapter. I'm skeptical that other automakers will rush to add NACS ports to their cars, even if NACS becomes truly free. (Yes, I know that Aptera is a fan; but I have yet to hear anything but fantasizing by Tesla fans about Ford, GM, VW, etc. replacing CCS with NACS.)
If I were Rivian/Lucid I would be working on adding the NACS port to my vehicles ASAP.
On this I disagree. I simply don't see much incentive for any existing non-Tesla EV manufacturer to switch to NACS. It would be a profound change in the product line, which is always painful to implement; and unless and until NACS connectors become common at non-Tesla DC fast chargers, such a change would tie customers to Tesla's Superchargers (assuming the non-Tesla EVs could even charge there) or require customers to buy adapters.

This could change in the future, of course. Hypothetically, if all the major DC fast charging networks add NACS cables, and if/when Tesla adds CCS software support to all or most of its Superchargers (perhaps to more stations than support the CCS1 connector type), then that would provide a real benefit to non-Tesla EV manufacturers to switch from CCS1 to NACS inlets. This benefit would be bigger if Tesla supports the CCS protocol, but not the CCS1 connector, at a large fraction of its Superchargers.
Did you see that network operators already have plans in motion to add NACS connectors to their sites?
Yes, I noticed that detail, too. I found it interesting, and possibly relevant to @Cosmacelf's question at the start of the thread about why Tesla is doing this now....

Hypothetically (I can't stress that word enough), if Tesla has been in talks with EA, EVgo, ChargePoint, etc., with the goal of adding NACS cables to these third-party chargers, then it's possible that those negotiations led Tesla to open up the NACS details. These third-party providers would, after all, want to be able to add these connectors without paying kickbacks to Tesla for its IP and without agreeing to the "poison pills" Tesla has attached to its previous offers of opening up its IP. By this analysis (or speculation), Tesla is opening up the NACS designs now because it's only now that EVs have become common enough that interoperability between all brands and charging networks is becoming a game with high enough stakes for the various parties to come together.
 
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Yes it does include communications:
That's CCS (PLC). The supercharger protocol uses CAN. So the standard does not include Tesla's proprietary charging protocol. So @MP3Mike is correct, just worded it differently.

So this standard is basically just the connector, the protocol remains CCS. This makes the most logical sense given all manufacturers have to do is add this connector, there is no need to update the software and other communication hardware to support Tesla's CAN based protocol.
 
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Let see the play here. If they open the superchargers to other manufacturers using their connector it would be IMHO a tempting proposition to the other manufacturers. Right now I know owners of the Mach-e that would like to have access to Tesla SC's. Supercharger are a business on its own.
 
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Let see the play here. If they open the superchargers to other manufacturers using their connector it would be IMHO a tempting proposition to the other manufacturers. Right now I know owners of the Mach-e that would like to have access to Tesla SC's. Supercharger are a business on its own.

If Tesla spins off Superchargers as a separate business... I can see MANY carmakers jumping on board. Charging at EA is an unpremium experience for cars that cost $60K to $200K.
 
That's CCS (PLC). The supercharger protocol uses CAN. So the standard does not include Tesla's proprietary charging protocol. So @MP3Mike is correct, just worded it differently.

So this standard is basically just the connector, the protocol remains CCS. This makes the most logical sense given all manufacturers have to do is add this connector, there is no need to update the software and other communication hardware to support Tesla's CAN based protocol.

I guess we are arguing over what "include communications" means. I meant that they specified the communications.

Anyhoo, Does this mean that Tesla Superchargers must now support two different communication protocols?
 
On this I disagree. I simply don't see much incentive for any existing non-Tesla EV manufacturer to switch to NACS. It would be a profound change in the product line, which is always painful to implement; and unless and until NACS connectors become common at non-Tesla DC fast chargers, such a change would tie customers to Tesla's Superchargers (assuming the non-Tesla EVs could even charge there) or require customers to buy adapters.
I didn't say to switch, or replace, the CCS port...
 
That's CCS (PLC). The supercharger protocol uses CAN. So the standard does not include Tesla's proprietary charging protocol. So @MP3Mike is correct, just worded it differently.

So this standard is basically just the connector, the protocol remains CCS. This makes the most logical sense given all manufacturers have to do is add this connector, there is no need to update the software and other communication hardware to support Tesla's CAN based protocol.

But why would carmakers these use CCS/PLC? Why wouldn't Tesla just open up the well known and well test CAN-based messages to other vendors?
 
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