There will be more connectors. Neither CCS or Tesla NCAS are great for Semis and vans or heck the Hummer EV. We used to have FireWire, a half dozen USB connectors, eSATA, etc. in the computer world… we are in that stage now. None of these connectors deserve to be the one that rules them all.
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Tesla belatedly tries to make their connector a North American standard
- Thread starter Cosmacelf
- Start date
There will be more connectors. Neither CCS or Tesla NCAS are great for Semis and vans or heck the Hummer EV. We used to have FireWire, a half dozen USB connectors, eSATA, etc. in the computer world… we are in that stage now. None of these connectors deserve to be the one that rules them all.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
There will be specialized/commercial variants of course but I disagree that there’s any valid reason to have multiple “standards” for personal automobiles, including ridiculous options like the Hummer.
If Tesla was serious about this they would have done it a decade ago. As it is, it’s a hamfisted attempt to squeeze some government cheese and further bifurcate the market.
There is already a standard for Semis, that would be the MCS standard. The Tesla Semi will likely have both a MCS and NACS inlet. (I think MCS is DC only.)
I agree. See Megawatt Charging System - Wikipedia. Up to 3.75MW.
One notable thing about the MCS design is that they put the DC pins at the top of the plug. The bottom-heavy CCS design has led to some handshake problems on some EVs.
Tesla should've never released the NACS so that people wouldn't ask this question.
Once Apple goes the USB-C everyone will ask why they didn't do it earlier. Might as well not do it at all at that point.
Also this is insane.. Tesla's connector is just superior.
Yes but honestly why does it matter? You’re not keeping this in your pocket
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
I've used my CCS adapter and maneuvering the CCS cable is much harder than the Tesla one. Also unlatching it is a pain as the CCS lock is external where as on the Tesla one I only have to click the button since it's internal. This allows you to unlock it from your phone or the screen. Also if Tesla used the CCS port then you'd be forced to use j1772 for daily charging which is way inferior to the Tesla one.
Having the Tesla port/charger be the standard would benefit everybody. It's just the better plug, period.
Bottom heavy is one way to describe it. I’ve now read about “nudging” the CCS connector in 6 different EV forums. The J-1772 communication pins probably don’t seat correctly after wear and tear. CCS is a poor physical design. I think the proposed Chinese combined GB/T-CHAdeMO standard has them in the middle.
To be clear I’m saying neither two connectors are ideal. We are in the RS-232 days and there will be better designs.
X and S are supported since the redesign in late 2021 at least.
I just saw a photo of a Megawatt connector. Yikes.
Cavotec And Brugg eConnect Present 3 MW MCS Connector
Two Swiss companies - Cavotec and Brugg eConnect - unveiled at the Bauma trade fair in Munich, Germany their Megawatt Charging System (MCS) connector.
insideevs.com
EDIT: I’d argue for 10000V and vastly lower amps. 3000A is insane. Maybe a robotic arm that reaches out from the charger for safety. Again… we are in the early days of charging.
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EfficientWatts
Member
I just saw a photo of a Megawatt connector. Yikes.
Cavotec And Brugg eConnect Present 3 MW MCS Connector
Two Swiss companies - Cavotec and Brugg eConnect - unveiled at the Bauma trade fair in Munich, Germany their Megawatt Charging System (MCS) connector.
EDIT: I’d argue for 10000V and vastly lower amps. 3000A is insane. Maybe a robotic arm that reaches out from the charger for safety. Again… we are in the early days of charging.
10000V?! Yea good luck trying to have a battery that operates in that range and be able to handle arcing hazards in such a system.
That screenshot I believe shows a connector in its higher power form; for trucks and stuff the can be slimmer and don't look as unwieldly as the above screenshot makes it out to be (though obviously it is bigger than CCS).
CharIN Officially Launches The Megawatt Charging System (MCS)
CharIN has officially launched at the EVS35 in Oslo, Norway, the Megawatt Charging System (MCS) DC fast charging connector for heavy-duty vehicles.
insideevs.com
You can see a charging session for MCS, doesn't look to bad to plug (especially for its intended purpose).
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Tesla can relatively easily add support for the CCS protocol to those (given they have versions that already have it in Europe, so it's not like they are working from scratch). If Tesla can get some federal money for doing so, they would have incentive to do so.
Also, this only matters for stalls that Tesla wants to add CCS support (they don't necessarily want to do that for all stalls).
If another EV maker adopts the NACS on their vehicles, will they be allowed to use any Supercharger? If so, how would billing work?
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The CCS connector is unwieldy and a poor experience to use. It's not as bad as if you have to use it daily (luckily the plain J1772 connector is not quite as unwieldy).
But it still causes problems where as the connector wears it causes failed sessions (plenty of accounts of this in the Bolt forums) or the latch fails to lock or breaks off (which defeats the purpose of it as a safety feature). This matters less if it's only the cables that are breaking (so charger operators are responsible for fixing things), but if the port wears out that's a problem for the vehicle owner.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The connector has nothing to do with allowing supercharger use (even though it eliminates the adapter). For example in Europe Tesla uses CCS2, but that doesn't mean other brands automatically gets access to superchargers. Tesla is only allowing a subset of stations (mainly ones that have free capacity) to have third party access. The cars that want to charge use the Tesla app to pay to activate the given numbered stall.
See Tesla's EU FAQ:
Non-Tesla Supercharger Pilot
If the vehicle manufacturer wants to adopt a built in billing system (like Teslas use) where they just plug in and charge (and be billed automatically by Tesla without needing to use an app), they would have to negotiate with Tesla to build that into their cars. CCS has a plug and charge protocol, so it's definitely technically possible to support this (but the business end still have to be negotiated with Tesla).
Also, given as above this standard uses the CCS protocol, only supercharger stations that support the CCS protocol will work (it's possible they already do, but that is unknown at this point).
I briefly worked in visual effects and encountered 15+ tape formats at a production house. Panasonic/Sony D1, D2, D3, D5 and other competing variants. D5 recorders were a few hundred thousand (back then SGI Onyx machines were $1M and Quantel were $500K at least)
Then we went digital... yay! Oh wait... we have like 100000000000000 different codecs now
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