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Tesla BEV Competition Developments
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So totally made up out of thin air no chance in ___ a big bunch of hullabaloo, gotcha, moving on!
RobStark
Well-Known Member
GM has built a Gigafactory in Lordstown, Ohio that has started delivery cells or will shortly. Has one halfway built in Spring Hill Tennessee. Has another lined up in Lansing Michigan. And GM board has approved a 4th but the location has not yet been chosen. All of these will be manufacturing 30-40 GWh once fully ramped. GM has signed deals for raw materials with several companies. They have a real concrete plan. They many not get to 2M in 2025 but will within a few years.
Stop ignorantly spewing nonsense.
Will believe it when I see it. And yes, what Mary says is pure nonsense
Doggydogworld
Active Member
Skepticism of GM is well-founded. I no more believe Mary when she says "2 million" than I believe Elon when he says I can nap behind the wheel of a Model Y. New factories are encouraging, but VW finished two 300k factories in China four years ago and has a third due next year. It's easy to talk big numbers when flanked by supportive politicians at a ground-breaking ceremony. It's another thing entirely to actually build and sell millions of EVs. Wake me up when GM's sales mix includes more than a homeopathic concentration of EVs.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
VW issues in China are particular to VW in China. Bad software combined with perception in China that VW has low tech where market demands leading tech. And conventional styling where China demands very expressive progressive styling.
VW has two partners ready to make 300k ID BEVs each year but no joint venture Gigafactories. Those partners can sell battery cells to other automakers or manufacture vehicles for other automakers. Not so with GM in USA.
China also has dozens of brands/companies of EVs with large production capabilities. The US does not.
GM has the right product for the North American market. EV Silveado/Sierra EV, Blazer EV, Equinox EV Lyriq Escalade EV, Hummer EV. And soon Suburban/Tahoe EV Corvette CUV etc.
Ramping will not be easy. Saying that ramping to 2M will take longer than 3 years is reasonable. Saying that GM has zero chance of selling 2M EVs in 2025 or that GM will only sell a handful of EV in 2025 is just plain stupid.
In the US we are in land grab situation. Product need not be perfect. Demand for EVs will far exceed Tesla's ability to manufacture EVs for North America. Particularly with the new IRA law. You simply can't import millions of EVs from China every year at a $7500 disadvantage.
Considering what Vinfast and BYD are bringing to the fight, I'm willing to take the bet that GM has zero chance of 2M BEVs by 2025, or even 2027 for that matter.
However! I'm willing to concede that the claim of "2M EVs" by 2025 most likely includes hybrids, which would be both truthful AND unworthy of trust.
GM no longer sells hybrids. Probably because they needed to focus all of the engineering effort at all of the new EV models and decided they couldn’t do both at the same time.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
VinFast started making ICEv in 2017?
Yes, they are going to sell millions of cars with leased batteries in the USA and Canada. Ha ha ha.
BYD homologized the e6 for the USA. How many did they sell?
GM doesn't sell hybrids and won't start. Mary has said hybrids are a transition technology and they are focused on the future.
2M BEVs in North America by 2025 is the goal. In a non pandemic non recession year North America buys close to 20M vehicles. Although it is obvious Mexico will lag behind in EV adoption.
BTW VinFast North Carolina factory is designed for 150k BEVs per year capacity. If everything goes according to plan and there are no delays they plan to open July 2024.
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I pretty much agree. GM is making the right moves to expand EV production, though they may not make the target. In a market where demand exceeds supply for EVs, GM might do OK, but they do have a perception problem. Their cars are not regarded as good quality by a large chunk of the public.
I've talked about getting an EV for my partner to replace her Subaru Impreza. It's mostly just talk, we don't really have the spare funds for it at the moment. But she won't even consider a GM car even though the Bolt is about the right size for her. Her preference would be something about the size of the Impreza from Tesla, Ford, or Subaru. She also wants all wheel drive which does rule out the current Bolt, but her primary objection is that it's a Chevy.
GM has made so many mistakes that even though they have turned around a lot of their old problems for many people their brand is synonymous with junk.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
Thank God: Dodge will discontinue its Challenger and Charger muscle cars next year
I don't know what it is about Dodge Chargers, but without fail I've never encountered one that wasn't being driven obnoxiously.
I don't know what it is about Dodge Chargers, but without fail I've never encountered one that wasn't being driven obnoxiously.
Must have Toyota building their wheel components.
Toyota BZ4X and Subaru Solterra recalled for loose wheels
A wheel bolt could loosen, possibly allowing a wheel to break free on the Toyota BZ4X and Subaru Solterra EV SUVs.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
Tesla cars are not regarded as good quality by a large chunk of the public.
GM has about 14% market share in North America and is aiming for ~18% market share in 2025. Not a massive jump.
A large chunk of the American public will not buy foreign cars for nationalistic reasons.
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
Going to need a citation on that one. I imagine the majority of Americans don't have a solid opinion on the Tesla brand, let alone an opinion on the quality of their cars.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
Same citation that says a large chunk of the public doesn't think GM cars are good quality cars.
I see over and over again on the internet and real life people saying Tesla cars have huge panel gaps, horrible paint jobs, and software that crashes your car. That Ralph Nader says NHSTA should recall.
Consumer Reports had Tesla in the bottom 3 spots for reliability for years. This is where Toyota and Honda earned their reputation. That Tesla has climbed a bit lately doesn't really sink in until it does it for years.
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
I also see people in my internet circles saying similar things. But my internet circles are EV-focused forums, subreddits, and Twitter accounts.
EVs are still niche enough for most people not to have really thought much about them (aside from the occasional misconceptions that slip into the mainstream).
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
GM was also aiming to "maintain their leadership position in electrification" in 2015 (not that they actually had one at the time) and failed hilariously.
They also were aiming to "launch 2 new EVs in 18 months" in late 2017 and failed hilariously- instead introducing ZERO new EVs for another roughly 48 months and they barely make any of those (the Hummer)-- only with the lyriq, deliveries finally happening almost 5 years after their 18 month promise, did they introduce 2 all new EV models.
They were also aiming to "launch 20 new EV models by 2023"
They're gonna miss that "aim" by distances that require SpaceX to measure.
GM "aims" for lots of stuff in press releases. They seem to never actually hit anything they aim at though.
None of this is being pointed out to you for the first (or 10th) time so your continued optimism about anything they claim coming true in this area is...odd.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
I see the same thing in real life.
Here is Los Angeles people have been very exposed to Tesla in real life.
GM vehicles earned their reputation for bad quality roughly from 1974-1994. It is really no longer true. All brands have lemons and recalls. But bad reputation is hard to shake off once you have it.
GM has basically lost baby boomers on the West Coast and Northeast. But I think they can make inroads with other demographics.
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