And none of those are open to non-Tesla vehicles. So, nothing changes there.
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Tesla blesses other cars blocking two stalls due to short cord
- Thread starter bradtem
- Start date
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Here's Ford that says explicitly that V2 are not compatible with non-Tesla EVs and will not be updated to make them compatible.
"Ford drivers will be able to view the expanded list of Tesla Superchargers available to Ford vehicles in the FordPass App as we launch in 2024.
Note: V2 Tesla Superchargers are not capable of charging non-Tesla EVs and will continue to be unavailable."
https://www.ford.com/support/how-to...ord-electric-vehicle-at-a-tesla-supercharger/
The latest infographic (which they also include with the adapter) explicitly shows V2s won't work, with a handy guide on how to identify them (silver collar):
https://www.ford.com/support/how-to...lic-charging/how-to-find-tesla-superchargers/
Also although it was assumed V3s already had native support of CCS, apparently that was not fully true. Tesla in the last couple of months apparently retrofitted new control boards to V3s in preparation of supporting NACS/CCS vehicles.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/8116454/
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Makes sense, in that the V2 chargers have older hardware that might not be adaptable to speak CCS, even if the firmware can be upgraded.
A bigger disappointment on the destination chargers. In particular when there are readily available aftermarket adapters which can let J1772 cars use Tesla AC chargers already, which means it would not be too hard to provide them to Ford drivers, either free or at a reasonable price. (The existing adapters are made in small volumes and not official.) While you can't upgrade the firmware in Tesla Wall Connectors so easily, Tesla's AC protocols and J1772 are already not so different.
The reason it's bad is that it delays the day when people putting Level 2 AC chargers in public locations and hotels switch to just using NACS at all stalls. Right now, if you are putting in such a station, you will lean to putting in J1772 because all cars, Teslas and others, can charge from that, but Tesla drivers need the extra step of using their adapter (with the additional pain of doing commands on the app to unlock it.) While new cars starting next year will have NACS on them, they will now need the adapter, and it will be many years before Level 2 stations default to NACS.
A shame.
Note that even with no CCS cars at V2 chargers, a system to allocate users to stalls would still be very useful for Tesla drivers at a V2 station which is >50% full, to let you know which stall will charge you the fastest.
A bigger disappointment on the destination chargers. In particular when there are readily available aftermarket adapters which can let J1772 cars use Tesla AC chargers already, which means it would not be too hard to provide them to Ford drivers, either free or at a reasonable price. (The existing adapters are made in small volumes and not official.) While you can't upgrade the firmware in Tesla Wall Connectors so easily, Tesla's AC protocols and J1772 are already not so different.
The reason it's bad is that it delays the day when people putting Level 2 AC chargers in public locations and hotels switch to just using NACS at all stalls. Right now, if you are putting in such a station, you will lean to putting in J1772 because all cars, Teslas and others, can charge from that, but Tesla drivers need the extra step of using their adapter (with the additional pain of doing commands on the app to unlock it.) While new cars starting next year will have NACS on them, they will now need the adapter, and it will be many years before Level 2 stations default to NACS.
A shame.
Note that even with no CCS cars at V2 chargers, a system to allocate users to stalls would still be very useful for Tesla drivers at a V2 station which is >50% full, to let you know which stall will charge you the fastest.
Another tidbit -- it says that Fords will be able to use plug & charge at Superchargers, as well as at EA. That sounds like it means the Tesla SC are able to speak the native plug-&-charge protocol that Fords and other cars use, though it could mean that Ford has upgraded firmware in their cars to be able to talk the supercharger's own Tesla auth protocol that Teslas use.
The former case gives me hope that Tesla will put new firmware into our cars to speak plug & charge with CCS chargers when we use our CCS adapters. It's annoying that those drivers get a better experience at those chargers than we do, though of course our experience is always a bit worse due to the need to use an adapter.
From what I have seen most people don't like using Plug&Charge because it seems that you always pay the highest rate that way. (You can't use your Tesla Supercharger or EA Pass+ subscription to get the lower prices. And some CPO charge less even if you don't subscribe if you use their app, instead of Plug&Charge or a physical credit card.
The exception might be people with the free charging deals with EA and their OEM. (Lucid/etc.) As those free charging deals are seem to be part of the Plug&Charge. (I'm not sure about VW, since they just enabled P&C for 2024 vehicles with an update in the last little bit.)
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Note that page with the infographic is talking solely about the fact that the Fast Charging Adapter is not compatible with Destination Chargers. This is because the AC pins are not populated on the adapter (it's not safe to do so for a dumb adapter; you don't want AC on the DC pins when charging at a Destination Charger, nor vice versa). It says nothing about future policies for Destination Chargers or other adapters that might be compatible with AC charging.
Right. Annoyingly the way CCS is designed it's probably not practical to make an adapter that could work for both. I mean you could put the two Tesla main power pins to both sets of pins in the CCS adapter but you would put voltages on pins that while in theory should be disconnected, probably aren't a good idea. So maybe they will give/sell a NACS to J1772 adapter, and I hope that is indeed their plan, allowing people to just declare J1772 and CCS obsolete and not to be used for future stations after a while. (Some owners of older J1772 cars might have to buy an adapter, but there are enough Tesla destination chargers out there already it's worth having one.)Note that page with the infographic is talking solely about the fact that the Fast Charging Adapter is not compatible with Destination Chargers. This is because the AC pins are not populated on the adapter (it's not safe to do so for a dumb adapter; you don't want AC on the DC pins when charging at a Destination Charger, nor vice versa). It says nothing about future policies for Destination Chargers or other adapters that might be compatible with AC charging.
Watts_Up
Well-Known Member
Those crossatched areas in general are designed to provide ADA access,
so you should not park a car in the corresponding stall or over the crossatched area.
Note: I suppose that if there is no other stall available, you could use the stall (?)
if you stay inside the car and move your car out of the stall if an ADA user needs to use it.
You could also park like this. 
It's related to the post I made at Ford says owners can start using superchargers today (Feb 29).
It's related to the post I made at Ford says owners can start using superchargers today (Feb 29).
TomServo
Active Member
Given that, Tesla knows which non-Tesla has "plugged in" their software should immediately know which OPEN stall they are blocking and update the station BALLON on the car's display. That way even before a Tesla arrives at the station they have SA on which stalls are USEABLE or UN-USABLE. Oh SA = Situational Awareness, that's 48 years of working for the USAF creeping into my typing. That should help eliminate any ruffled feathers.
I’ve been thinking about this, but a lot will depend which stalls the Teslas take. If they all lineup to one side a supercharger as they do in Europe, it’ll be much easier for the non-Tesla vehicles to grab a stall.
If the Tesla line up at every other stall like they do here in the US, it’d be hard for a CCS vehicle to grab the ‘correct’ stall…..bc the ‘correct’ may already be taken by the Tesla. You will not know until to arrive at a station.
If the Tesla line up at every other stall like they do here in the US, it’d be hard for a CCS vehicle to grab the ‘correct’ stall…..bc the ‘correct’ may already be taken by the Tesla. You will not know until to arrive at a station.
V3 Superchargers have liquid cooled cables, so any extension cable would have to be extra thick and heavy to carry the same current without overheating.
And I’m guessing it would also probably require temperature sensors at one or both ends to throttle the current in case of overheating at the connectors, like supercharger connectors do. Not sure how that would/could work.
The Tesla/CCS adapter for Teslas has temperature sensors in it, and I will presume the magic dock adapter and the customer owned adapter have such sensors, so I think a cable could also have them.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Source for this claim? How does that temp sensor communicate with the vehicle/charger? There are some third party adapters that claim to have temperature protection, but AFAIK Tesla makes no such claims (the port and cable itself has temp sensors of course).
This has been widely talked about. There were many teardowns and discussions when the Tesla/CCS adapters and clones came out. I googled it for you, here's a ford rep talking about the sensors in the Ford adapter.
dgpcolorado
high altitude member
Those familiar with what the complete Supercharger map looks like will see that there are a LOT of Supercharger Stations that will not be available to non Tesla cars. In addition to being V3/V4 (of course) they seem to be newer, larger stations that are not typically crowded:
In my home turf, only one Wyoming station (Evansville) and a handful of Colorado stations, all very new. In Utah, only the I-15 corridor. In northern New Mexico, only a few of the newest stations. Same with Northern Arizona. There are a lot of large gaps in the Supercharger network that non Tesla EVs will have to fill-in with CCS stations, if they can.
Tesla appears to have given a lot of thought as to which stations to open up.
In my home turf, only one Wyoming station (Evansville) and a handful of Colorado stations, all very new. In Utah, only the I-15 corridor. In northern New Mexico, only a few of the newest stations. Same with Northern Arizona. There are a lot of large gaps in the Supercharger network that non Tesla EVs will have to fill-in with CCS stations, if they can.
Tesla appears to have given a lot of thought as to which stations to open up.
My understanding is there is some software/hardware necessity that not all V3 stations currently have. Maybe Tesla just left some V3 stations Tesla-only on purpose, but I think we all hope that over time all V3 stations will be open to all EVs (through hardware/software updates) and help continue pushing the EV movement forward.
It doesn't communicate with the vehicle. If it overheats it breaks the connection on the pilot line, which causes both the vehicle and charging station to immediately stop charging.
Of course, these cars all have access to the CCS stations they use today. And I use CCS stations myself when in certain areas, or I simply use knowledge of their existence to remove any range anxiety in more remote areas -- I know that if I detour and won't make the SC, I can top up at them.
With this network the CCS drivers can have a more reliable and predictable trip along the major highways. The CCS stations, while we tell many nightmare stories about them, do work most of the time. It's just that when you are depending on it, not working even once can screw up a trip. I do feel that Ford drivers, using these stations, and CCS stations with good Plugshare scores, can now have a much more worry-free road trip. Not quite at the level of a Tesla driver with a CCS adapter, which is the best arrangement, but better than before.
It is interesting that they took the step of sending an adapter to every driver. It seems that since there are a LOT more cars than charging stations, a much cheaper and flexible approach would have been to put a locker cabinet at suitable superchargers, which authorized drivers can open to borrow (or even pay a few bucks to rent) an adapter. If you have digital serial numbers in the adapters that the charger can read, you can use that for accounting and also to make them pointless to steal, as they would only work in the stall they were activated for. The lockers would cost some money, but now you can enable any brand of car at no more hardware cost, and even improve the adapters if needed. And put in extension cables in the lockers too. You don't need as many extension cables as you have stalls.
With this network the CCS drivers can have a more reliable and predictable trip along the major highways. The CCS stations, while we tell many nightmare stories about them, do work most of the time. It's just that when you are depending on it, not working even once can screw up a trip. I do feel that Ford drivers, using these stations, and CCS stations with good Plugshare scores, can now have a much more worry-free road trip. Not quite at the level of a Tesla driver with a CCS adapter, which is the best arrangement, but better than before.
It is interesting that they took the step of sending an adapter to every driver. It seems that since there are a LOT more cars than charging stations, a much cheaper and flexible approach would have been to put a locker cabinet at suitable superchargers, which authorized drivers can open to borrow (or even pay a few bucks to rent) an adapter. If you have digital serial numbers in the adapters that the charger can read, you can use that for accounting and also to make them pointless to steal, as they would only work in the stall they were activated for. The lockers would cost some money, but now you can enable any brand of car at no more hardware cost, and even improve the adapters if needed. And put in extension cables in the lockers too. You don't need as many extension cables as you have stalls.
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