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Tesla EV Tax Credits coming back?
- Thread starter hnguy054
- Start date
It is a joke, but PHEVs are currently getting about $6,000 to $7,000 credits today, depending on battery range. I believe the Audi Q5 PHEV is getting $6,700.
That is very frustrating 10 years ago it made at least a little sense. Now it's just stupid.
Honestly I'd prefer they let the whole program expire rather than fund millions of crappy PHEVs. I'd rather eat the $7,500 rebate on my Cybertruck than see hundreds billions of government dollars go into this garbage.
TwelveVoltMan
He'll make sparks fly round your head
I was playing this “should I delay delivery” game in June. I’m happy I didn’t. I’m enjoying not producing emissions while obliterating every ICE vehicle short of my buddy’s McLarean to 60mph. Do what makes sense for your personal finances, but I’m increasingly skeptical that what is being debated today will actually be enacted into law after a few lobbyists have a house boat party with prime minister Manchin.
You guys do know that Tesla isn't going to be able to deliver 3 months worth of cars on January 1st right?
If you defer right now, or next month, there is a fair chance you won't see a car until March as thousands of other people have the same idea you do.
If you defer right now, or next month, there is a fair chance you won't see a car until March as thousands of other people have the same idea you do.
Gurule92
Member
Gurule92
Member
8000 off the cars price is over 100 a month off the payment (at 72 mo). I would HATE to wait that long but 100 a month is worth it to me
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kc1953
Member
My understanding is that the Biden tax changes, if they pass, are intended to be in effect for the 2022 tax year.
Yeah, my date range spans before to after. I think I can wait 4 days after they give me my vin number and the 4 days is about 4 days after they assign a vin... I'm hoping it'll be after the vote.
Gurule92
Member
People who bought the FSD for $10k were informed about very limited functionality up front by Tesla, so they should not complain about anything.
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
Remember when the US first instituted serious pollution control regulations for cars and used tailpipe concentrations (mass per volume)? The manufacturers put an air pump on the exhaust manifold to dilute the pollutants. USEPA eventually got wise and changed the rules to mass per distance.
That's what PHEVs are, an endrun around the carbon emissions goals. The vast majority are often not plugged in to charge and even if they are, the C emissions saved is small compared to BEVs. PHEVs should get no tax break. Go ahead, buy a PHEV. I have one in addition to my MY. But don't ask for an incentive.
That's what PHEVs are, an endrun around the carbon emissions goals. The vast majority are often not plugged in to charge and even if they are, the C emissions saved is small compared to BEVs. PHEVs should get no tax break. Go ahead, buy a PHEV. I have one in addition to my MY. But don't ask for an incentive.
It's not just the emissions that matter though. It's the overall impact on the planet. Clearly the BEVs have no emissions now, but they did at one point while being made. And except for those powered by solar, some electric company still has to produce the electricity to charge and recharge the car. From what I've read there is probably a substantial environmental impact to create the batteries and to eventually dispose of them. I have not yet seen a study of the overall impact of a BEV over its lifetime. It might be better than a PHEV or ICE vehicle but it's certainly not "emission free". I don't know all the facts yet and plan to learn more about this.
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
It really depends on where one lives. I live in NY, where approximately 60% of the electricity is from nuclear and renewables. I also spend part of the year in WA, where renewables account for 80%.
Read somewhere that after 5000 miles of driving, the CO2 emissions of a BEV are better than an ICE vehicle on a cumulative basis.
Gurule92
Member
Here's another perspective to consider. My previous Honda Odyssey got 21 MPG and 100% of the miles, of course, used gas.
I replaced it with a PHEV Pacifica, which gets 32 MPH, and 25% of the miles are gas.
In a typical 16k mile year, my Odyssey burned 762 gallons of gas. My Pacifica burns 125.
PHEV gas savings: 637 gal/year.
Compare a small SUV to my MY. A small crossover SUV gets around 30 MPG. For the example above, that'd burn 533 gallons per year. My MY burns none.
MY gas savings: 533 gallons/year
I know that this example is biased because my van is a larger vehicle. It does show that my PHEV minivan does more to reduce gas consumption than my MY. Incentivizing them both (or neither) seems reasonable to me.
Gurule92
Member
In this comparison. If there were no phev credits, I think it would be more likely that an affordable odyssey sized ev would exist because they would sell less phevs. So really, by the phev credit existing, it took away your ability to have 762 gallons saved.
If phev incentives didn't exist there would be more money to be put towards ev incentives. Could theoretically double
doomsday997
Member
J
Axios reported he failed to change manchin and Sienema’s minds. They want a much smaller bill less than half of the 3.5 trillion proposed, and the EV tax credits will be an easy thing to cut or pair down in favor of other priorities. My bet is in the end there will be a credit but it will only apply to non “luxury EV’s” below 50k. NY recently changed its rebate incentive similarlyTwo Dem Senators hold out on $3.5 trillion spending bill.
Biden to meet with Manchin, Sinema on party-line megabill
The move shows the president is moving directly to arbitrate what’s become a messy fight in the Democratic caucus.www.politico.com
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