Tesla EV Tax Credits coming back?

[PNWLeccy]

Thinking of maybe releasing my hold around the 20th? Get ahead of the curve a bit and then hope they can't deliver until after 1/1/22. I did notice that Model 3s have now been pushed from December to January delivery for new orders...

I thought of releasing my hold a bit earlier but there's no chance they don't rush a car to you before EoQ. They have even dropped cars off at people's driveways overnight to get them "delivered" within the quarter. Elon did say they were going to let some deliveries of Q4 production push into Q1 but I'm not going to release my hold until 1/1

 

[leaftoy]

I can live with that change as well. Bring back the 35K and 39K 3/Y.

Fair enough.

 

[mjatx]

Not to nitpick but isn't the exact wording Jan 1 2022, or when the bill is signed, whichever comes later? I only want to clarify this as it puts a bunch of people who are releasing their holds on Jan 1st in a tough predicament if they are still arguing over this thing next year.

I just looked and the exact wording is:

This provision is made effective beginning after December 31, 2021, replacing section 30D, the plug-in electric drive motor vehicles credit.

No credit shall be allowed under this provision for vehicles acquired after December 31, 2031.

 

[advocate8]

Of course she is interested in getting reelected. It's just she has her own calculation, which most people think it's wrong. But who knows.

All true. It does just seem like she has gone out of her way to anger her own base.

 

[ElectricIAC]

All true. It does just seem like she has gone out of her way to anger her own base.

That’s okay, she’ll have a new base consisting of refugees from neighboring states.

 

[advocate8]

I just looked and the exact wording is:

Yes ai pulled the bill and scoured it too, and this passage was the only reference I saw to timing. It would be faintly odd if bill passed on say, Feb. 2 and therefore applied retroactively. for just one month of sales... rather than all of 2021 like many on this forum have been hoping for. but also would be pretty much par for the course for government. Just hoping some of it survives senate. clearly the extra money for union built is DOA with Manchin. But he has (non-union) Toyota and there may be some hope because of that of some form of credits. Worst case, hoping they’ll at least lift the cap for manufacturers on the number of cars sold so Tesla can fall under the old version of the credits again, at least. That cap makes only some sense as an encouragement to purchase of EV’s. Seems more like seed money to help fledgling car makers get on feet, which isn’t the main problem now.

 

[Corndart]

TX-24, Previously TX-32.

You have my heartfelt condolences

 

[ElectricIAC]

You have my heartfelt condolences

It’s a nice place to live.

 

[alset3000]

Yes ai pulled the bill and scoured it too, and this passage was the only reference I saw to timing. It would be faintly odd if bill passed on say, Feb. 2 and therefore applied retroactively. for just one month of sales... rather than all of 2021 like many on this forum have been hoping for. but also would be pretty much par for the course for government. Just hoping some of it survives senate. clearly the extra money for union built is DOA with Manchin. But he has (non-union) Toyota and there may be some hope because of that of some form of credits. Worst case, hoping they’ll at least lift the cap for manufacturers on the number of cars sold so Tesla can fall under the old version of the credits again, at least. That cap makes only some sense as an encouragement to purchase of EV’s. Seems more like seed money to help fledgling car makers get on feet, which isn’t the main problem now.

The BBB act is a reconciliation bill to the Fiscal 2022 budget resolution that was previously passed by the Senate. It has to pass this year or they have to start over with a new budget resolution. This bill passing in February will not happen. This bill not passing at all is a possibility. This bill passing in some form or another by 12/31 is the most likely outcome, as I see it.

 

[nate704]

For those with delivery date in December, Give up your hopes and Dreams!! =P

 

[pepperoni]

Not to nitpick but isn't the exact wording Jan 1 2022, or when the bill is signed, whichever comes later? I only want to clarify this as it puts a bunch of people who are releasing their holds on Jan 1st in a tough predicament if they are still arguing over this thing next year.

Where did you see this? This is the text I see on p. 1500 of https://rules.house.gov/sites/democrats.rules.house.gov/files/BILLS-117HR5376RH-RCP117-18.pdf

(e) EFFECTIVE DATES.—
(1) The amendments made by subsections (a), (c), and (d) of this section shall apply to vehicles acquired after December 31, 2021.

 

[PineNut]

Still too high. Cut it down to 100/150/200 tops hard cap.

If you’re making over that and can’t afford an EV, consider not ordering as much carry out and Starbucks.

I would tend to agree with that, however the problem with total income in a given year is that it can vary a lot and my not reflect a person's normal income.

For instance, a taxpayer may want to purchase a home and decide to take the down payment out of their IRA. Or a person does an IRA to Roth conversion. In either case the taxpayer could easily go over those lower income limits in that particular year, but that year doesn't reflect their true income.

I think I prefer the current 250K/500K income limits. If you go lower, then let the taxpayer average their income over the previous 3-5 years.

 

[ElectricIAC]

I would tend to agree with that, however the problem with total income in a given year is that it can vary a lot and my not reflect a person's normal income.

For instance, a taxpayer may want to purchase a home and decide to take the down payment out of their IRA. Or a person does an IRA to Roth conversion. In either case the taxpayer could easily go over those lower income limits in that particular year, but that year doesn't reflect their true income.

I think I prefer the current 250K/500K income limits. If you go lower, then let the taxpayer average their income over the previous 3-5 years.

If any subsidy need be given, it should be given to those who may actually need it to convert from ICE to BEV. No handouts are needed for upper middle and above, present company included

 

[highstrunghero]

Not to nitpick but isn't the exact wording Jan 1 2022, or when the bill is signed, whichever comes later? I only want to clarify this as it puts a bunch of people who are releasing their holds on Jan 1st in a tough predicament if they are still arguing over this thing next year.

Where did you see this? This is the text I see on p. 1500 of https://rules.house.gov/sites/democrats.rules.house.gov/files/BILLS-117HR5376RH-RCP117-18.pdf

(e) EFFECTIVE DATES.—
(1) The amendments made by subsections (a), (c), and (d) of this section shall apply to vehicles acquired after December 31, 2021.

If you look at Bearded Tesla Guy's latest video entitled November 18th Tax Credit Update at the 2:15 minute mark he speaks to this language of whichever comes later.

 

[doomsday997]

I have no expectation that Republicans would cross the aisle for BBB. I think there is a chance that Paid Leave get's pulled out of the bill with the promise it gets addressed separately (this would be in 2022-2023). This could get Manchin onboard with BBB and appease Sanders/Gillibrand. There is a chance Paid Leave, on it's own, get's Bipartisan Support.

Why Paid Family Leave’s Demise This Time Could Fuel It Later

In failing to secure a benefit with bipartisan appeal, President Biden joins a long line of frustrated politicians. But some Republicans say it could be resurrected on its own.

www.nytimes.com

There is pretty much zero chance paid leave will get enough votes from the GOP on its own to overcome the fillibuster in an election year. If it’s not in BBB it’s dead for the foreseeable future and sanders will know this.

 

[Corndart]

If you look at Bearded Tesla Guy's latest video entitled November 18th Tax Credit Update at the 2:15 minute mark he speaks to this language of whichever comes later.

He's got a newer one posted today. He's very articulate at breaking down what is happening, and what is next, IMO.

 

[RD3P]

Model 3 Performance doesn't qualify.....hope it all fails!

 

[voxel]

Model 3 Performance doesn't qualify.....hope it all fails!

Why? Doesn't affect it with or without.

Current EV tax credits are capped and Toyota/Ford/VW are likely to hit 200K by mid-2022. They will lobby for new tax credit late in 2022 or early 2023. I don't think the EV tax credits are dead... I'm not convinced they are needed per se. At least not now with shortages and high demand.

 

[Corndart]

Model 3 Performance doesn't qualify.....hope it all fails!

That's an easy fix - gate unlocking the faster 0-60 , track mode, and other stuff behind a post-purchase add on. new price is $54,990 with a $4000 purchase afterwards.

 

[Camryguy]

You are entitled to your opinion but I would say that if you make 100K per year you probably don't need to be buying a $50,000 Tesla.