I thought it was the older generation of chargers that fried vehicles, not the new generation. (The person with the fried R1T confirmed that it was a 150kW BTC, so not the single cable next generation chargers.)
I think that is correct.
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Tesla forced to open superchargers to unlock billions
- Thread starter Sambub
- Start date
slyderz3
Member
I would just sell my car if I had to pay a fee to keep access to supercharging, and buy a gas car. That's an intensely dumb idea unless you grandfather approximately 2 million cars, especially when they're giving it away for free to get people to take delivery at the end of every year
And 3500 stalls isn't going to make a near-term dent in access for Tesla owners. A) almost all the EV's are teslas; B) a lot of the other companys' EV's come with or will come with some amount of free charging for a while at EA or other vendors, giving the system time to adjust gradually to demand C) SUPERCHARGING IS EXPENSIVE EVEN FOR TESLAS, and this will drive price competition in the marketplace, once EA and others realize the seamless experience we expect at a Supercharger is non-negotiable, downward price pressure is good for tesla owners too D) Everyone else will continue to build theirs out in parallel with Tesla's CCS rollout E) seriously the fast-charge capable EV fleet has a long way to go before there are enough EV's that aren't Teslas for this to matter - sure there are lots of Leafs and Bolts and such on the road, but you can scratch them off the list of cars you'll find at a Supercharger with any kind of regularity
Tesla is hurrying to keep up with its own success just to charge its own cars, but CCS cars accessing it isn't going to make or break the experience for Tesla owners, unless they're really huffy pissy-pants people who just can't wait another 10 minutes once a month the one time a MachE is in the next stall available. Those peoplea are already posting before it's even happened, heh, so maybe they'll be over it by then
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ai4px
Wes
Other OEMs might be wise to put the NACS plug on the rear corner of their vehicles in addition to where their other plug is.
ai4px
Wes
If the likes of EA and EVGO thought it was challenging to make money running chargers, boy the pressure will be on now. They thought they had a captive audience and POOF... their customers have an alternative.
I'm going to sound terrible here, but bear with my conspiratorial thoughts. The OEMs waited until Tesla committed to NACS in 2011 before ratifying an entirely different plug in 2013. They tried to hobble tesla by waiting until Musk went left and then all went right. Further, they've hobbled consumers by creating unreliable chargers. There's apart of me that says this was done with a nod and wink from the OEMs to scare people away from EVs. Call it a loss leader for VW... give a half hearted effort to create something that will ensure the sale of ICE cars for decades.
FWIW, the original J1772 included a DC mode where the AC pins were to be used for DC at up to 80amps. They could have simply used the same pin sizes presently in the CCS DC plug in the J1772 housing but didn't. When Tesla created the NACS standard they were just running with the original idea of the J1772.
I'm going to sound terrible here, but bear with my conspiratorial thoughts. The OEMs waited until Tesla committed to NACS in 2011 before ratifying an entirely different plug in 2013. They tried to hobble tesla by waiting until Musk went left and then all went right. Further, they've hobbled consumers by creating unreliable chargers. There's apart of me that says this was done with a nod and wink from the OEMs to scare people away from EVs. Call it a loss leader for VW... give a half hearted effort to create something that will ensure the sale of ICE cars for decades.
FWIW, the original J1772 included a DC mode where the AC pins were to be used for DC at up to 80amps. They could have simply used the same pin sizes presently in the CCS DC plug in the J1772 housing but didn't. When Tesla created the NACS standard they were just running with the original idea of the J1772.
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CCS was proposed in 2011. It was ratified in 2012, first prototypes in 2012, and the first public CCS charger was opened in mid 2013.
Initial work was only up to 200A though, less than Tesla pulled in its v2 in early 2013.
No conspiracy.
Tesla didn't initially adopt CCS because Tesla was moving faster and higher than the rest of the industry.
I don't think it sought to be proprietary.
The choice of modified Type 2 for Europe helped when legislation forced it to move to CCS Type 2, as it could switch the DCFC without switching all the EVSEs.
As for charge port location, there is no one location to rule them all.
Front center is the most flexible location as it's RHD/LHD agnostic and supports charging at parallel parking.
From LHD thinking, right-side allows for passenger-side parallel parking.
Side is also cleaner than back or front and is less likely to be damaged in a collision.
Driver-side offers the best potential convenience for home-charging as there's always a driver, but depending on how you park at home and where the charger is mounted, it's not necessarily the best for everyone with off-street parking.
I'd like to think that eventually you'd be able to choose between left and right locations.
Maybe your Superchargers are not getting full now? Here in Northern California, it is not unusual to see a Supercharger nearly full at 9 AM on a Tuesday. I just experienced a wait at the 14-stall Supercharger in San Ramon, CA at 9 AM on Tuesday.
Not sure if I am happy about this. I tested and rented 4 other cars before I tried the Tesla (because I didn't want to spoil it). EA was okey but took some effort for me about half of the time to get charging. Loved all the EV's I drove. A lot. Finally tried the Tesla (model 3), loved it for a host of reasons. But the most important was that I go to a charger, plug it in, and immediately run back into the car. No hassles. No jiggling. No waiting on the handshake and moving to another space.
I like that the stations are all Tesla and the cords are the perfect length too. The whole system and culture of it. The vertical integration is top notch. That sold me. The CCS ones are so unwieldly, and I need something very useful. And there are a lot more superchargers in my area than other fast chargers. 30 or so superchargers versus 8 EA and 2 other in a far away place, who knows how many will work with whatever car I'm using.
And the supercharger stations here in the middle of flyover country are full too.
If they open it up, I lose a lot of advantage, and it's not like I'm going to do the retrofit on my 2018 Tesla to use the other guys.
And will it even be reliable for the other guys? Because, I think the bonus is the vertical integration. That's part of what makes it so reliable. I drove an Ionic, it would give voltage errors whenever there 3 other cars charging. But worked like a champ when the stations were empty. Will it even work at the superchargers? I have my doubts. Otherwise, if they did, it would just make the other cars more attractive. And maybe get the other guys to make their cars and chargers more stable, because I think some of it is on the cars themselves giving me the errors.
I like that the stations are all Tesla and the cords are the perfect length too. The whole system and culture of it. The vertical integration is top notch. That sold me. The CCS ones are so unwieldly, and I need something very useful. And there are a lot more superchargers in my area than other fast chargers. 30 or so superchargers versus 8 EA and 2 other in a far away place, who knows how many will work with whatever car I'm using.
And the supercharger stations here in the middle of flyover country are full too.
If they open it up, I lose a lot of advantage, and it's not like I'm going to do the retrofit on my 2018 Tesla to use the other guys.
And will it even be reliable for the other guys? Because, I think the bonus is the vertical integration. That's part of what makes it so reliable. I drove an Ionic, it would give voltage errors whenever there 3 other cars charging. But worked like a champ when the stations were empty. Will it even work at the superchargers? I have my doubts. Otherwise, if they did, it would just make the other cars more attractive. And maybe get the other guys to make their cars and chargers more stable, because I think some of it is on the cars themselves giving me the errors.
Hmm...just found a news source showing a new generation charger frying a Lightning. So it seems it could be both the old and new ones doing this?
That source is likely wrong, unless it was a second Lightning that was fried. (But I haven't heard of a second.) Here is a picture of it being towed from a two cable charger, so not the new generation ones:
How, exactly? It's not like what would happen is any different from what would happen if Tesla just, you know, sold more cars. Which they have been doing every year for the last decade.
woah woah woah... critical thinking IS NOT for these types of threads.
ai4px
Wes
Customer reports: "Plugged Ford lighting truck into EA charger and subsequently heard a loud boom".
Technician notes: "The loud boom was thunder. Thunder always comes after lighting.
"Forced" is unnecessarily dramatic. It seems to be the right time for Tesla to open up the charging infrastructure, and leverage the additional income. They are rapidly facing more competition, and if they don't open up, others will fill the gap. Really they need to do what they've done in Europe, and migrate to all CCS.
As far as congestion at stations, public charging is intended for long distance travel. For the vast majority, it should be a small percentage of use, as you're charging while you sleep at home. For those who were foolish enough to buy an EV without the ability to charge at home, well, they bought the wrong car.
As far as congestion at stations, public charging is intended for long distance travel. For the vast majority, it should be a small percentage of use, as you're charging while you sleep at home. For those who were foolish enough to buy an EV without the ability to charge at home, well, they bought the wrong car.
scottf200
Well-Known Member
7500 chargers by 2024. The numbers seem like we are talking about plugs/ports/pedestals vs Superchargers/sites/locations.
Totals in green. Increments in white. In 2022 they added 399 *site* locations.
Based on these numbers it has to be 3500 ports (aka stalls).
FYI: numbers extracted from supercharge.info website.
Feb 15, 2023.
Title: "FACT SHEET: Biden-Harris Administration Announces New Standards and Major Progress for a Made-in-America National Network of Electric Vehicle Chargers"
www.whitehouse.gov
Totals in green. Increments in white. In 2022 they added 399 *site* locations.
Based on these numbers it has to be 3500 ports (aka stalls).
FYI: numbers extracted from supercharge.info website.
Feb 15, 2023.
Title: "FACT SHEET: Biden-Harris Administration Announces New Standards and Major Progress for a Made-in-America National Network of Electric Vehicle Chargers"
FACT SHEET: Biden-Harris Administration Announces New Standards and Major Progress for a Made-in-America National Network of Electric Vehicle Chargers | The White House
Made in America Policies and New Technical Standards Support the Future of the Electric Vehicle Charging Industry, Public and Private Actions Accelerate Buildout of National Network and Catalyze Manufacturing Boom Today, the Biden-Harris Administration announced its latest set of actions aimed...
israndy
Supercharger Hunter
And as several EV pundits have pointed out, the self reporting for the major charge networks rarely reflects the actual state when you arrive. It may say that all the chargers are working but one has a blank screen, another has a bad card reader, another says "Connecting" forever even though the cord is still hanging from the station in the holder, and the last one has a VW that's charged to 100% and the driver is nowhere to be found. This is not close to 97% available
Mandating 150kW each, but then not demanding more than four stalls per site is just bad legislation, obviously guided by the CCS based car manufacturers who LIKE confusion around charging as it lets them sell more ICE vehicles
Mandating 150kW each, but then not demanding more than four stalls per site is just bad legislation, obviously guided by the CCS based car manufacturers who LIKE confusion around charging as it lets them sell more ICE vehicles
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E90alex
Active Member
Very true. Every quarter there’s probably more new Teslas on the road potentially taking up Supercharging spots than there are new CCS cars
Good thing those deficiencies can be improved over time then and this gives those network operators a goal or else lose the funding.
CyberGus
Not Just a Member
Those are really "Mehchargers"
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