The best way I've heard those described and will now commandeer this.
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Tesla forced to open superchargers to unlock billions
- Thread starter Sambub
- Start date
Interesting omission. I use the 75 kW Urban Supercharger at the local Home Depot on most of my trips to the store. The rate is slow enough to let me browse, but fast enough to top it off by the time I am done shopping. Also, I am guessing the slower charge rate is easier on the battery.
75Kw chargers are great but not especially "future proof" nor are they capable to charge a large amount of EVs in a short time ...
in 5+ yrs most EVs will be capable of peak rates in excess of 250 kw as battery chemistry improves and other advances. Using tax payer $ to *now* construct slow 75kw/ 150kw chargers is without a doubt a stupid idea and hence the bill requires 250 kw...
scottf200
Well-Known Member
Tesla said it will more than double its nationwide network of Superchargers by the end of 2024.
I played around with the 2023 & 2024 numbers (purple boxes) to nearly double it and it was a 45% (x1.45) increase YoY to get there.
That is more than any previous year (2020 at 41.21%).
Locations of just permits and active construction as of 2023-02-17
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I agree this could go very badly for Tesla customers. We all paid a very high premium for the enclosed garden and supercharger network. Obviously the quality and fit/finish of the car is marginal at best and more on par with a low end car.
What is the Tesla mission? Be “fair” to customers? Hardly. They want to expand and be profitable. So don’t expect them to worry about what you paid.
I would suggest the following. Tesla open its network slowly. Collect subsidies from government to expand charging locations. Add a heavy premium to non-Teslas. Take that revenue and keep cutting the prices on their cars. Basically flood the market with Teslas, force other EVs out of business, and then dominate the charging space. Eventually will have Teslas everywhere and become the Exxon of charging.
What is the Tesla mission? Be “fair” to customers? Hardly. They want to expand and be profitable. So don’t expect them to worry about what you paid.
I would suggest the following. Tesla open its network slowly. Collect subsidies from government to expand charging locations. Add a heavy premium to non-Teslas. Take that revenue and keep cutting the prices on their cars. Basically flood the market with Teslas, force other EVs out of business, and then dominate the charging space. Eventually will have Teslas everywhere and become the Exxon of charging.
Tesla has been very quiet about how the pricing will be for non-tesla owners in USA, so anything here is pure speculation.
However it might be worth looking at what they have done in other countries that are already open to all EV's, like Australia.
Select Tesla Superchargers open for all electric cars in Australia
That's a very disappointing map. The SF Bay Area does not need more SC sites. The Los Angeles/OC and San Diego areas do not need more SC sites. They should focus on getting DC fast charging into EVERY single parking lot off of rural I-5 and I-80 so that no matter what restaurant you want to stop and eat at, you can charge. Urban areas need L2 charging in every parking lot, not DC fast charging. Even when I am visiting an urban area and don't have access to my home EVSE, I do not need to fast charge if I am not taking a road trip through the area. L2 charging is plenty.Tesla said it will more than double its nationwide network of Superchargers by the end of 2024.
I played around with the 2023 & 2024 numbers (purple boxes) to nearly double it and it was a 45% (x1.45) increase YoY to get there.
That is more than any previous year (2020 at 41.21%).
View attachment 908243
Locations of just permits and active construction as of 2023-02-17
scottf200
Well-Known Member
A different perspective is EV owners that don't have a home EVSE (apt, condo, etc). Not my situation but it can be good to keep an open mind to other owners and their situations.
“Basically flood the market with Teslas, force other EVs out of business, and then dominate the charging space. Eventually will have Teslas everywhere and become the Exxon of charging.”
Seriously?
Seriously?
That's kind of covered in by the "L2 charging in all parking lots" idea. I am going on a road trip soon. I won't have access to my home EVSE while I am traveling (obviously) but I expect to keep the car charged with the L2 charging I can find in various parking lots, including at or near my hotel. Everyone who owns a car has to sleep at some point, or uses it to shop, go to work, etc. But I shouldn't have to look on Plugshare to figure out where the L2 chargers are. All parking lots should have L2 charging.
E90alex
Active Member
Agreed. People need to shift away from the ICE refueling mentality of going out of your way to a station and “filling up” the car in X minutes then continuing on with your day.
If everywhere that you are already going has L2 charging in the parking lot, you just plug in at your destination for 1-2 hours at a time while doing whatever you’re doing. Eating, shopping, movies, doctors appointments. Even more so at workplace garages, street parking meters etc. You don’t need to charge to full or even 80/90% each time. You can easily maintain or add to your battery charge throughout your week by topping off at each stop for 1-2 hours while doing your normal business.
Of course DCFC is needed for road trips when you need to charge up quickly and get going again. But for daily use in urban/suburban environments there shouldn’t need to be a proliferation of DCFC stations everywhere like gas stations are now.
Not that Europe has L2 in all parking areas but where they do, their system of bollards with Mennekes outlets would be easier to implement than an EVSE at every stall. Drivers just carry a cable instead of the Mobile Connector, though here we would want the NACS plug instead of Type 2 at the vehicle end.
I would disagree that SF Bay Area does not need more SC sites. I still occasionally run into waits for an open stall. It happened last Tuesday at 9AM in San Ramon. How is it going to be when the other EVs can charge at this site?
In California, EVs made up 16% of new car sales in 2022. I bet it will be close to 20% in 2023.
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So maybe it'll just take spaces from them.
I retract part of my statement, because it really would be a nice change of pace from this strange thing that people do......park their gasoline cars at Tesla chargers. Kinda like how an EA charger is in the back an empty lot, and the giant pick-up truck is parked real tight next to the EA space - a staple in some parts of the country. But just worse.
So maybe it'll just take spaces from them.
The problem can be found in the thread on free EV charging: Why stores offer free EV charging? Not free gas?
"They absolutely do not-they value their cheapness above all else. Unfortunately, there’s enough of these people to make this an issue. It’s why we can’t have free things."
There are people who will wait in line for 3 hours to save $10 on an item they could have bought without waiting. There are people who will drive 20 minutes out of their way to get free fast food. How about they stop giving away free supercharger "miles" to the extent of up to 4000 kWh per vehicle sold, and make sure supercharging is always more expensive that home charging? It's not supposed to be for urban driving but the cheap folks use it for that purpose.
My guess is it has little if anything to do with free Supercharging. Most of the cars have plates so they have likely used the 1000 miles of free Supercharging. There are just a lot of people driving Teslas. On my block at least 50% of the homes have at least one Tesla. And it is not unusual to count 7 or 8 Teslas at stoplight or a dozen in a school drop-off/pickup line.
Also, by me a lot of Superchargers have a Starbucks or other coffee close by. So, people plug in a go grab a coffee before heading home or to work.
I got my plate just a month or so after taking delivery but the free supercharging was good for 6 months. I believe the newest plates being issued right now begin with 9D or 9E. Haven't seen a 9F yet. Anything starting with 8Z or 9A would be about a year old.
No? Their mission is to shift the word to sustainable power. Seems consistent with that.
I don't know what it'll be but there has to be a differential rate for non-Tesla vehicles and punitive charges for dwell time. Also, perhaps a step up rate after 80% SoC.
Why the step up rate after 80%? Seems to be spoken like someone that never had to 90-95-100% to make it through a chunk of highway that had no coverage. Do you not use hvac in the vehicle?
Isn’t most of the east coast charging per min and not kWh?
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