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Tesla has a monopoly. Best to wait?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by gowthamn, Apr 8, 2017.

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  1. Aieukl378

    Aieukl378 Closed

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    Do you mean basic features like a futuristic cabin, self driving capability, state of the art electric propulsion system...sorry just trying to figure out what Tesla is getting away with.

    The MS is an awesome car and available now. All other cars with their antiquated engines and drivetrains pale in comparison. I've done multiple long distance trips(most recent 2700 mi.) and even with my 60kw battery range was never and issue. If you want to wait years for something somewhat comparable to a Tesla but with more door storage your probably not your average Tesla owner and should definitely wait for something worse to spend your money on.
     
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  2. electracity

    electracity Active Member

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    Lots of plug-in hybrids coming to market. Buy the brand you want and drive it mostly on electricity. You will get the EV buzz with a fancy interior.

    Do a three year lease, then buy a BEV. There should be several high end BEV choices by mid 2020, including a substantially refreshed model S.

    The model S with better sound insulation and a high end competitive interior should be completely doable for Tesla.
     
  3. electracity

    electracity Active Member

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    The least well made expensive vehicles I have owned are Mercedes. The only flawless vehicle I have owned is a Ford Mustang convertible built on the south side of Chicago.

    In particular I would never buy a Mercedes in its first year of a new model. I suspect the model 3 will be particularly horrible for the first couple of years of production too.
     
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  4. kort677

    kort677 Banned

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    you can wait, but it might be a long wait
     
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  5. kort677

    kort677 Banned

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    this is not a universally true statement. German car builders like any car builders offer models in all different sorts of configurations and price ranges. while some models of the lineup may not be all that great some other models are quite sturdy and reliable. like any other purchase, research and diligence is important. I've owned some MBs that lasted many hundreds of thousands of miles and I've owned some that were not so great.
     
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  6. TrevTremaine

    TrevTremaine Member

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    I've had a couple of BMWs and to call them "quality builds" would be an exaggeration. Certain things were better, and the HUD was a great feature, but engine, electronics, and numerous problems with them. Paint was so-so with a bit of orange peel, and color selection is limited unless one wants to spend a good chunk of change for a special color which also means up to 3 to 6 MONTHS waiting for delivery. So far as spoilers go, if you follow BMW's method, with sportier versions you have to give up something to get it - maddening configurations.

    Things I can agree with: cooled seats (although for the most part pre-conditioning makes a huge difference too). Interior color - a darker brown would be a nice option, along with other trim options but that's about the only thing I'd suggest. Perhaps better seats with an adjustable thigh support would be good too. Headrests are adjustable already. I didn't see anything out of line in terms of panel gaps on my vehicle. Tesla could use a bit better navigation algorithms.

    What "convenience" items are you talking about? About the only thing offered by others are surround view and front side view cameras. Maybe, for some people, Apple or Google apps. That said, connectivity to the Tesla via the app far surpasses that of BMW or Mercedes or that other disgraced one. Autopilot is better than what they make too. Certainly, over the air updates are something the competition is unlikely to offer because it'll destroy their expensive maintenance model.

    Charging standards will improve, but nothing other than vaporware for a good long time to come from the other manufacturers.

    If you're unsure, it's understandable - your money, your choice. Just don't BS yourself over "better build quality".
     
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  7. kort677

    kort677 Banned

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    I am just commenting on these points that you've posted.
    The seats in the tesla, especially the older models IMHO are very uncomfortable and should be redone.
    as for features, the one I really miss from my german cars is the personal seating profiles for multiple drivers and the entry/exit positioning of the seats and steering wheel. these and other things like the poor nav. system really take points away from what other wise is a great car.
     
  8. oktane

    oktane Active Member

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    Best to wait if buying new. There are many $35,000 cars far superior to Tesla in interior quality and manufacturing quality. It is actually quite embarrassing to hear the difference in road noise.

    I recommend buying the cheapest used AP1 car on the market and dumping it in 1-2 years if you must purchase a car right now.

    Arguably an AP1 car will be superior to AP2 for another year. Save the depreciation and buy German in 2 years or Tesla if they improve.
     
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  9. daniel

    daniel Active Member

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    The above says it all. There will always be something better in three years if you wait. And then you can wait another three years for something better yet. And you'll never have an EV.

    Today's luxury ICE vehicles do have more "features" than Teslas have. And if those features are more important to you than massive, instant, whisper-quiet torque, and getting away from gasoline, then a Tesla is not the car for you. I bought my first electric car (a Zap Xebra) because I hate gasoline: I hate the stink, I hate the smog pollution, I hate the effect on climate, I hate the way an ICE vibrates even when the car is standing still, I hate the noise of an ICE, and I hate buying fuel from people who finance terrorism. (The 9/11 hijackers got their financing from Saudi oil sheiks.) And I don't like the domestic oil companies much better.

    A Tesla is not for everybody. The cost of batteries are a real obstacle and must be paid for by higher price or fewer features or lesser range. But as good as the Germans are at manufacturing and design, I don't think they'll ever build an EV that's unequivocally better than a Tesla in the same price range. If you really love the roar of a big V-8 (I hate it) and you love the smell of gasoline (I hate it) then a high-end German car may be your best bet. And that's okay, because the demand for Teslas is so high that if you choose not to buy one then someone else can get theirs sooner.

    Whatever you get, enjoy it and drive safe.
     
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  10. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion, it won't be real competition because there will be no properly designed high speed charging network for that car. There will be a hodge lodge of -- depending on what country you live in -- CCS and/or Chademo chargers that will be pricey and may or may not work when you arrive to use them or will be occupied for hours before you can plug in. Yes, with time an I-Pace owner will figure out where to charge and when low use times are, but it will be aggravating and awkward and unreliable.

    Yes, some Tesla Superchargers are very busy, but the majority are not. And with the latest Tesla software you can see the Supercharger status in real time. And the Supercharger network continues to expand and improve.
     
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  11. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    The reviews I have read say that Tesla Autopilot is superior to the competition right now and it is improving rapidly.

    I do agree with you that if you can't charge at home that is an issue. As others have noted, Seattle is a pretty progressive place when it comes to EVs. Get involved with your condo board and get things moving for chargers in your complex.
     
  12. Johann Koeber

    Johann Koeber Active Member

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    After driving cars from the 3 German manufacturers and then Teslas, I can say that TESLA has a different kind of quality than the Germans. May I suggest you get a Tesla now - you will probably never return to ICE - ever.

    Why now?
    Because I am very sceptical of any compelling car coming from other manufacturers any time soon. As Bonnie mentioned here we are driving Teslas for five or six years and the other cars are always at the end of the rainbow.
     
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  13. TrevTremaine

    TrevTremaine Member

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    Some of what you've talked about has been changed. Seats have gone through a couple of revisions - I've sat in the newest and they're better than the ones in my 2016. Personal seating profiles are done, key specific at that. Entry/exit I won't disagree with, but I rarely used it in my BMW. Technically, you could add a couple of profiles and have it work - kind of. Nav - well, it's a work in progress. I would say that some of it may come about through software updates, although obviously it's presumptuous since there's no written schedule of things Tesla is working on. Odds are, entry/exit may be added.

    Older cars - aftermarket seats or reupholstering? I don't know whether one could purchase newer seats and fit them in. If you're expecting them to fix/replace it for free, let me know another manufacturer who does that.
     
  14. TrevTremaine

    TrevTremaine Member

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    Part of the answer is: Tesla will improve it on the existing cars through software updates, not just future cars. Will BMW or Merc do that? Doubtful, and certainly not without cost.

    AP2/HW2 isn't perfect yet by many people's standards, but it'll continue to improve as time goes on thanks for the ability to update software and even add functionality.
     
  15. kort677

    kort677 Banned

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    slow down cowboy, I only posted my opinion of the seats in the older models. if they've upgraded the comfort of the seats great, I didn't ask for them to replace the seats.
     
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  16. kort677

    kort677 Banned

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    I'm sorry to say this but tesla was way behind the curve with their nav systems from day one of their model S. while the huge screen is great eye candy, the functionality of the nav system was far less than what was on the market then and is way behind what is out there today.
     
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  17. kort677

    kort677 Banned

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    I agree,Tesla is way ahead of every other car maker in manner of propulsion the vehicle however in the creature comfort part of the equation tesla offers bare bones "luxury"
     
  18. gowthamn

    gowthamn Science

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    Just to make it clear I am not saying I will but a Germal EV when it comes out. I am planning to wait until a good German EV comes out with all the luxury features (better materials, quality, reduced outside noise, cooled seats, tin-able sunroof etc ) which will force Tesla to add them too. Then I will buy a Tesla itself.
    Since Tesla has a monopoly now they are not taking luxury seriously.
     
  19. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    In the meantime you're still driving an ICE for the next few years. Is your desire for what you consider an acceptable level of luxury interior worth delaying driving an EV for a few years?
     
  20. daniel

    daniel Active Member

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    I don't think that's it. Everything is a compromise against price. Want more range? You have to pay for more batteries. Want better build quality? That costs. Want more luxury features & comfort? That costs, too. With the cost of batteries today, the exact same car (in other respects) will cost more with 85 kWh of batteries in it than a car with a gas engine.

    Each consumer has his or her wish list and price range. A manufacturer needs to find the balance that will bring in buyers. Take the features and comfort of the top-of-the-line BMW, and put them in a car with 85 kWh of batteries and a motor capable of the same acceleration, and the electric car will be so expensive that few people will buy it. And Tesla's goal is to get as many people into electric cars as possible.

    Rather than "not taking luxury seriously," Tesla is building cars that are luxurious enough, while still having 5-star safety ratings in every category, being all-electric, and fun to drive. If you need the pinnacle of luxury, it may be a decade before Tesla is in a position to build that. I've driven an S twice (short drives) and ridden in one (longer ride) and I'd call it reasonably luxurious. Not as comfy perhaps as a Lincoln Town Car (limo service when I fly to Phoenix and need a ride to Sedona) but still very comfy and with features enough for 99% of the people who are in the market for a nice EV.

    Tesla is an electric-car company. Not a super-luxury car company. In a decade or two they'll have more niche cars to choose from. But right now they have to aim where the market is.
     
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