Tesla has no competetion

[Hitman007]

Well, as everyone knows (even short sellers like yourself), Tesla ramped up in production in Q3 so full year numbers would be misleading.

But Q3 tells the same story as September: Model 3 is crushing it -- outselling every other passenger car by revenue by a large margin:

View attachment 346882

Tesla Model 3 Is Best Selling Car In USA In Terms Of Revenue (Again), Nearly Double #2 Toyota Camry's Revenue — #CleanTechnica Report | CleanTechnica

I think we can expect similar results in Q4 as Tesla continues to ramp up production.

Thats in revenue. How about actual numbers of cars on the ground? Since the M3 is more than twice the cost of a Camry I would expect the revenue to be double? what gives? BTW.. I am not a shareholder in Tesla. Not short or long.

 

[Hitman007]

 

[EinSV]

Thats in revenue. How about actual numbers of cars on the ground? Since the M3 is more than twice the cost of a Camry I would expect the revenue to be double? what gives? BTW..

So what? The majority of smartphones are Android, but last I heard Apple was doing just fine selling premium phones that everyone wants, and letting everyone else fight over table scraps. Global smartphone market share 2018 | Statista

I'm pretty sure Toyota would trade places with Tesla in a second if it could generate the same revenues from the Camry that Tesla is generating from the Model 3.

As for your question, Average Sales Price of a Model 3 is probably not quite double the Camry -- Camry buyers also like options/upgrades.

 

[EinSV]

I am not a shareholder in Tesla. Not short or long.

So you covered your short after carpet bombing TMC with FUD that the Model 3 was going to cause Tesla to go bankwupt (a couple examples below)?

I want to document this right now so that the Tesla cheerleaders can jump all over me but then I can refer back to this post in one years time. The Model 3 will bankrupt Tesla. The bottleneck will get worse, the "cancelation of orders" dam will burst in the next 6 months (Americans hate waiting for anything) and that will be the beginning of the end. Once the stock starts the avalanche slide the end will be near. Its too bad because the S and X were doing well except for their own parts supply issues which still aren't solved. The automotive landscape is littered with the carcasses of cutting edge start up car companies. De Lorean, AMC, Fiskar, etc. Its a very tough business with huge entry barriers. People smarter than Elon Musk have failed. The 3 was pushed too hard too fast. They would have been better off quietly releasing it until they could actually do meaningful production numbers. They took too many folks deposits way too soon setting themselves up for failure. While you may read this and feel I am just looking for a fight or a reason to knock Tesla I am not. I want them to succeed and help change the planet and I guess in some way I am hoping someone important at Tesla can think about this and change the direction before its too late.

I have long said on this forum I really like Tesla cars. They are unlike anything else in the marketplace right now. I have also said Tesla as a company will go bankrupt by the end of the year. (I wont go into the boring details of reading a financial report). However where there is smoke there is fire and the smoke right now is one of the big 3 might buy Tesla. Or even a wildcard like Apple. But if Ford or GM buy the company and fix the production delays with their car building expertise and vast supplier network, everything changes. Suddenly production schedules will be met and parts will be available which means happy customers. I hope for the sake of Tesla as a brand Ford or GM buys them....

 

[Kichwas]

Sat inside of a Kona in a coffee shop in Seoul back in Nov 2017. It was a nice car. But it’s kind of a compact SUV thingy. Not sure it’s M3 competition. Maybe MY but it might be too small for that. I kinda felt it was a “mini coupe” killer.
- it is about halfway between that and an X3 in size, but the design and layout felt like it was aimed at the Millennial driving a Coupe that just hosted a baby shower...

Perfect for roads in Seoul though were traffic is insane and smaler cars rule. But only if it has autopilot and nobody else on the Korean market does... whoever brings autopilot to the Koreans is going to win Asia... They’re the perfect storm over there: overly dene population on roads that were designed for a once poor nation. Now the most advanced nation on the planet were people expect everything to be high tech, but no work from home culture. Mass transit or sit in traffic for hours.

China is a bigger market, but not as uniform a consumer. Japan might be richer, but it is no longer as innovative and doesn’t have the same traffic problems. Korea feels like Google in the early 2000s to Japan as IBM in 1990... One is on the way in and the other is on the way out...

If that Kona EV competes head to head with the M3 it will be on the streets of Seoul where they face off. Unless the M3 brings better autopilot...

 

[ggr]

My post said EV in general is a niche market. Only 1.3% of all vehicles sold are EV as of the end of 2017.

And this statement is ... ummm, I don't even know what to call it. A strawman argument? There is no "EV market". There's a market for cars, and some of them turn out to be EVs. Of all the cars traded in on Tesla Model 3s, it's not till you get to fifth place that you find anything you'd call an EV (Plugin Prius). Non sequitur? Diversion? Oh, I know... bull.

 

[ggr]

So you covered your short after carpet bombing TMC with FUD that the Model 3 was going to cause Tesla to go bankwupt (a couple examples below)?

Minor observation: Tesla now has more cash than a quarter of fixed expenses. If they just stopped production at this instant, they still wouldn't be bankwupt until next year.

 

[Hitman007]

So you covered your short after carpet bombing TMC with FUD that the Model 3 was going to cause Tesla to go bankwupt (a couple examples below)?

Never owned Tesla stock short or otherwise. You dreamed that up on your own.

 

[Hitman007]

And this statement is ... ummm, I don't even know what to call it. A strawman argument? There is no "EV market". There's a market for cars, and some of them turn out to be EVs. Of all the cars traded in on Tesla Model 3s, it's not till you get to fifth place that you find anything you'd call an EV (Plugin Prius). Non sequitur? Diversion? Oh, I know... bull.

babble.

 

[Swampgator]

So let me

Never owned Tesla stock short or otherwise. You dreamed that up on your own.

So let me get this straight:

You do not own a Tesla.
You do not own Tesla Stock.
You come to these forums and post mostly negative things about Tesla, and refute anything positive anyone has to say?
Maybe you need a girlfriend bro?

 

[EinSV]

Never owned Tesla stock short or otherwise. You dreamed that up on your own.

Lolz, you yourself said you were short TSLA in the post below (while again spreading FUD that Tesla was going bankwupt -- cute):

<snip> Regardless the company is in serious cash trouble and its going to be a blood bath. I feel sorry for all the folks who gave Tesla a deposit on a 3. That money is gone forever unless they are lucky enough to take delivery in the next 8 months. And just for the record I did short TSLA at $356. But of course I "only hold a fraction of your portfolio" according to you... lol.

 

[Lloyd]

California Democrats Target Tesla

Pay Wall

 

[Hitman007]

Back to the post... does Tesla have competition? Of course it does. point made.

 

[LargeHamCollider]

Back to the post... does Tesla have competition? Of course it does. point made.

You're still trying? After blatantly lying on this thread?

Credibility = 0

 

[svp6]

For those who can get a car like a Kona or Niro, it's in most respects a more attractive proposition than an overpriced Model 3 with chronic quality defects.

Which exactly are the chronic quality defects you are referring to (the famed falcon doors and the early model S excluded - for obvious reasons)?

If you are criticizing the quality at delivery, you are probably correct that Tesla is behind other manufacturers. My 3rd Tesla surely had some issues on delivery (which points out to a subpar QC) - but they were all fixed on day 2 of ownership (thank you, Tesla Minneapolis). Since then, the car is flawless. It is true that I do not go measuring the gaps around all panels, but eyeballing they look OK - same for the paint. So on my 3rd Tesla in 4 years, and no significant issues so far.

As for the competition, I posted many times that I would consider a different EV from a premium brand, mainly for the quality of the interior materials. However, as the "Tesla killers" get released in production version, I am serially disappointed. Sure, the interior of the Jag / Merc / Audi are really nice, but none seems to have the range and performance of a comparable Tesla, let alone a functioning charging network....

The Hyundai / Kia current EV offers will be probably OK, but not inspirational.

I still have a Porsche Taycan deposit, but if the range is again ~250 miles (which is the current rumor) I will probably pass.

So no, not that much competition around at this time. Still waiting for other brands, will certainly consider once they have a compelling offer.

 

[Brovane]

Back to the post... does Tesla have competition? Of course it does. point made.

Interesting article you might want to read on Seekingalpha. Didn't you claim last October that the Model 3 will bankrupt Tesla?

Tesla: A Bear Refuting The Competition Argument - Tesla, Inc. (NASDAQ:TSLA) | Seeking Alpha

In my opinion, there is no legitimate competition to the Model 3 right now, and when competition comes out, Tesla will continue to blow it away.

I see significant risks with Tesla's business and stock price, but I just don't see Tesla dying at the hands of the competition. If Tesla dies, I expect the blame to lie on the shoulders of the direct corporate policy and the broken capital structure Tesla is built upon. Overall though, Tesla is arguably a market leader in the BEV space, and investors should recognize the competition argument as one with many holes in it.

 

[Lozza12]

Which exactly are the chronic quality defects you are referring to (the famed falcon doors and the early model S excluded - for obvious reasons)?

If you are criticizing the quality at delivery, you are probably correct that Tesla is behind other manufacturers. My 3rd Tesla surely had some issues on delivery (which points out to a subpar QC) - but they were all fixed on day 2 of ownership (thank you, Tesla Minneapolis). Since then, the car is flawless. It is true that I do not go measuring the gaps around all panels, but eyeballing they look OK - same for the paint. So on my 3rd Tesla in 4 years, and no significant issues so far.

As for the competition, I posted many times that I would consider a different EV from a premium brand, mainly for the quality of the interior materials. However, as the "Tesla killers" get released in production version, I am serially disappointed. Sure, the interior of the Jag / Merc / Audi are really nice, but none seems to have the range and performance of a comparable Tesla, let alone a functioning charging network....

The Hyundai / Kia current EV offers will be probably OK, but not inspirational.

I still have a Porsche Taycan deposit, but if the range is again ~250 miles (which is the current rumor) I will probably pass.

So no, not that much competition around at this time. Still waiting for other brands, will certainly consider once they have a compelling offer.

Absolutely agree with this. The Model 3 is a lot of car for your money. It’s stylish, it performs and has proven battery tech.

I’ve driven the Kona EV and the Ioniq (the latter a lot) and I can say they are both bland and uninspiring. They will remain compliance cars until Hyundai decides to ditch hydrogen and build more than 20,000 per year. The Kona is atyractive because of its good range, but is otherwise small and frankly quite forgettable.

 

[StellarRat]

Tesla appears capped for production over the next 5 years or so. This is discouraging as far as addressing climate change.

What does that mean?

 

[more863-also]

Anything can be considered a compliance car if supplies are constrained by battery shortages. So that complaint will persist for a long time regardless of what the car companies really intend. The more important criteria is how buyers who manage to obtain said vehicle feel about it. For those who can get a car like a Kona or Niro, it's in most respects a more attractive proposition than an overpriced Model 3 with chronic quality defects. That matters a hell of a lot more than your typical compliance car like an eGolf. These companies are in the business of making money. Should demand outstrip supply, don't expect them to not attempt to remediate the situation.

Note that at present the base Model 3 is available in ZERO quantities. So as limited as the Kona and Niro may be, that still bests Tesla. And for those who really want the Model Y, those cars are more attractive even if the base Model 3 becomes readily available. So yes, Tesla is shipping a lot of cars, but still out of reach of those who want a sub-40K car. With the tax credits expiring it puts even more advantages on the other automakers to compete on price. The category that Tesla will be crushed on is the one the Model 3 was intended to serve, but isn't, because they still can't make the math work.

But no, let's just slap "compliance car" labels on the competition and call it a day. Rather shortsighted analysis, really.

Nope! Compliance doesn't mean that. Compliance means it's only sold in ZEV/CARB states. There is no Hyundai EV slated for Colorado, for example.