Tesla making CCS adapter for fast charging interface

[Hydrocarbon302]

IMHO Tesla should make a supercharger to CCS port adapter so other vehicles could charge at their superchargers, and release it when it’s becomes evident that third party DCFC will overtake the supercharging network. It might be 5-10 years from now but I think it will happen eventually.

I’ve heard that the superchargers are not a revenue stream for Tesla, and if that’s true, instead of competing with several third party charging networks on their own isolated island, they could open up their SC network and charge a premium for non Tesla vehicles.

 

[cwerdna]

Hey smart people... why did CCS become the standard anyway?

It was probably to slow down Nissan and not become dependent on a Japanese DC FC standard (CHAdeMO). The slowing down Nissan part worked.

This was the what many of us felt in Leaf-land when bunch of European and American automakers decided to create yet another standard:
SAE Planning vote to formally deny CHAdeMO in US - Page 2 - My Nissan Leaf Forum

All of those automakers didn't ship DC fast charging capable vehicles for years and some took very long time (e.g. Audi, Ford, Volvo, Porsche, etc.) Chrysler still hasn't and Ford didn't until gen 2 of Focus Electric which sold in tiny numbers then went away, leaving them again selling no BEVs. (Yes, Mach-E is coming but it doesn't look like customers have received theirs yet.)

That resulted in two plugs, depending on region: Combo1 (aka CCS1 aka SAE Combo used in the US and Canada) and Combo2 (aka CCS2 used in Europe).

A big disadvantage is it is larger in size to the Tesla connector. It appears the Tesla connector should have become the standard.

You mean the proprietary connector Tesla chose to use in its cars in North American starting w/the Model S? Keep in mind Teslas Model S and later in Europe ship with different inlets. See CCS Adapter for North America. And in, China, they use two different GB/T inlets: CCS Adapter for North America.

BTW, Tesla didn't unveil their Superchargers until Sept 2012:

. I don't recall any sort of DC fast charging having being announced when the Model S shipped in early June 2012 (First 2012 Tesla Model S Delivered To Earliest Depositor Steve Jurvetson (Video)). There were rumors about DC fast charging, battery swapping and the like back then but it wasn't clear.

Meanwhile, the Leaf that shipped in Dec 2010 could have CHAdeMO I'm pretty sure from day 1.

The original Roadster (shipped years before Leaf) had a totally different proprietary connector and Tesla has never provided a means to DC FC those.

 

[jiml]

If people want to know why someone would want this? The main interstate I take for travel doesn't have a supercharger directly on it. I have to travel 40 extra miles to charge.

Electrify America has a charger right on it. I will use a chademo adapter to charge there because at the end of the day, yes, it is slower. Takes me about 50 minutes to charge. But when you account for 40 minutes of extra travel PLUS 15-20 minutes of charging, it takes longer to get to a supercharger.

My concern is always there is only a SINGLE chademo station. If that spot if taken, I am really out of luck.

CCS would alleviate most of that concern and be faster.

 

[jstjohnz]

I'm going to guess that because there is additional circuitry inside the adapter similar to
CHAdeMO for DCFC, it might cost closer to the $500 price tag of the previous DCFC adapter. Of course, if it's not like a rocket launcher sized adapter, the price might be a bit less.

CCS and Tesla charging are very similar. For some reason CCS chose to add a new set of power pins to handle the DC while Tesla uses the same pins for AC and DC. Not nearly the level of complication the Chademo adapter is.

 

[FredMertz]

I just don't understand why you would need to charge at Whole Foods unless you are 75 to 100 miles to get there. I am not trying to be a bad guy, I am just trying to understand the logic and need... On a Highway trip I average 246-266 Wh/mile and around town with the heat set to 72 degrees I am using about 390-410 Wh/mile and I tend to enjoy seeing how quickly my LR AWD Model Y will get to the speed limit plus 5 mph. So I can easily drive 150 miles around town without thinking about charging.

You get better efficiency on the highway than around town? I'm the exact opposite.

 

[jsight]

Thanks for the heads up! I'll definitely be grabbing one of these as soon as they're available, just to have the option of stopping at an EVgo CCS station at a Whole Foods to top up a bit if I need to while I'm out and about.

Around here the EVgo stations cost $20/hr for less than 50kwh. Regardless of whether CCS is supported, I wouldn’t use that unless really necessary.

Thankfully Electrify America costs a lot less.

 

[jsight]

If people want to know why someone would want this? The main interstate I take for travel doesn't have a supercharger directly on it. I have to travel 40 extra miles to charge.

Electrify America has a charger right on it. I will use a chademo adapter to charge there because at the end of the day, yes, it is slower. Takes me about 50 minutes to charge. But when you account for 40 minutes of extra travel PLUS 15-20 minutes of charging, it takes longer to get to a supercharger.

My concern is always there is only a SINGLE chademo station. If that spot if taken, I am really out of luck.

CCS would alleviate most of that concern and be faster.

True, and it is baffling that they haven’t made Superchargers available on I26 yet (which I assume is the route in question).

If you are referring to the EA in Columbia, there is an EVgo nearby that could serve as a (expensive) backup.

 

[CleverUsername]

Around here the EVgo stations cost $20/hr for less than 50kwh. Regardless of whether CCS is supported, I wouldn’t use that unless really necessary.

Thankfully Electrify America costs a lot less.

Ouch. They’re a tad cheaper here - I charged an i3 on one for 45 minutes, cost me a little over $8. Still something I’d only do in a pinch, and then only to buy me enough range to get home or reach a supercharger station.

 

[snord]

Around here the EVgo stations cost $20/hr for less than 50kwh. Regardless of whether CCS is supported, I wouldn’t use that unless really necessary.

Thankfully Electrify America costs a lot less.

Only for some of the states and if you're a member. For a lot of the western states at the per kWh rate, 50kwh is $20+. Even as a member its $15.50. Depending on how slow the trip is (lets say 200 mi @ 250wH/mi, that's getting close to gas $.

 

[jsight]

Only for some of the states and if you're a member. For a lot of the western states at the per kWh rate, 50kwh is $20+. Even as a member its $15.50. Depending on how slow the trip is (lets say 200 mi @ 250wH/mi, that's getting close to gas $.

Oh wow, I hadn't realized that the KWh states were so much higher. Those are pretty bad, and I wonder why?

TBH, highway charging rates are pretty close to gas right now even at the lower rate thanks to the higher energy consumption at highway speeds and unusually low gas prices right now.

 

[drotto25]

I want the adaptor just for convenience. I travel from NJ to VT fairly often using I87 through NY. The rest stations on I87 use the CCS charging stations, and tesla superchargers have OK availability, but are further spaced and are fewer on that route. This becomes more important with more cold weather travel and extreme temperatures in that region.

 

[Daniel Hsieh]

I have a CHAdeMO adapter that I use for road trips or emergencies. I have a tendency to travel off the main highway to remote towns or National Parks and on numerous trips I had to use it to prevent a huge detour to charge at a Supercharger or even to get to my destination as no Supercharger was along or near my route.

Just the past weekend I did a road trip to Yosemite National Park. I charged to 80% at a Supercharger in Traver CA and drove up mountain. The only Superchager from the South entrance is located at Tenya Lodge in Fish Camp - I reached there with 30% SoC. The entrance to the lodge was blocked with barriers and a snowplow as the place was closed due to COVID19. I did not have enough SoC to drive into Yosemite Valley and back so my only option was to drive back to Oakhurst and charge at a ChargePoint DCFC.

The CHAdeMO adapter is expensive and charge speed is slow (36kW-50kW) but without it, I would most likely have to cancel or change some of my trips or stay an additional night and find a place with L2 charger. Most of the newer charging stations from EA with multiple stalls will only have 1 CHAdeMO and the remaining are all CCS.

I always bring my CHAdeMO adapter along with a spare tire on any type of road trip. If and when a CCS adapter becomes available in the US, I will be on the waitlist.

 

[laservet]

IMHO Tesla should make a supercharger to CCS port adapter so other vehicles could charge at their superchargers, and release it when it’s becomes evident that third party DCFC will overtake the supercharging network. It might be 5-10 years from now but I think it will happen eventually.

I’ve heard that the superchargers are not a revenue stream for Tesla, and if that’s true, instead of competing with several third party charging networks on their own isolated island, they could open up their SC network and charge a premium for non Tesla vehicles.

That would mean a longer wait for Tesla owners to use a Tesla supercharger.

 

[Hydrocarbon302]

That would mean a longer wait for Tesla owners to use a Tesla supercharger.

In 5-10 years, if all goes well, just use the supercharger 5 blocks down the road.

 

[acarney]

That would mean a longer wait for Tesla owners to use a Tesla supercharger.

The only way I would gladly welcome 3rd parties using the supercharger network would be if it was some stupid price that allowed Tesla to ramp expansion up even faster... like three or four times the cost that a Tesla would pay. Make it prohibitively expensive so people aren't using it for weekly charging where they live ($0.80/kWh or something so a 50kWh car would be paying $40 to charge). I don't mind them having the "fail safe" in an emergency because the car didn't warn them about needing to charge soon enough, or because EA or some other third party decides to shut down huge chunks of the network for "upgrades", etc. I don't want to start waiting for a Bolt that can only charge at 70kW or something like that though because it's closer to his house than the 3rd party charger or some BS.

And honestly if they truly open it up, I kinda would like to see it roll out to new stations first with a limited number of stalls that support it. Put a CCS plug and a Tesla plug on like one, maybe two, of the stalls being installed for 8 stalls or less, or maybe 25% if it's a large station of 16+ stalls. That way there will never be a "glut" of 3rd party cars taking over the Tesla site but Tesla can act as an emergency fill in less serviced areas and also skim some extra revenue off them to try and fund the expansion even more.

Edit: And this would still ramp fast for 3rd party guys even if it was just limited to new sites or sites that got expanded. Tesla added ~229 new locations in North American in 2020, assuming they keep the speed up next year that could be over 200 new locations in the next year for the likes of the Mach-E and other EVs with likely 200 to 600 new "stalls." In two years that would probably be close to 1,000 new stalls and almost 500 new locations for them, all while being built in such a way to minimize impact for Tesla owners. (Honestly how hard could it be to make a 8 stall supercharger a 10 stall one with two plus for either Tesla or 3rd party guys) For reference, EA has just over 500 stations and has been around for about 3 years, Tesla could double that in the next two years if they did this.

 

[MP3Mike]

I don't mind them having the "fail safe" in an emergency because the car didn't warn them about needing to charge soon enough, or because EA or some other third party decides to shut down huge chunks of the network for "upgrades", etc

The vehicle that is rumored to be the first has a Tesla receptacle, so they won't be able to use third-party charging locations. (Unless they have a CCS port as well, or can use the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter.)

I don't want to start waiting for a Bolt that can only charge at 70kW or something like that

That would be better than waiting for older Model Ss where they claim to have been throttled to no more than 40kW charging...

And honestly if they truly open it up, I kinda would like to see it roll out to new stations first with a limited number of stalls that support it. Put a CCS plug and a Tesla plug on like one, maybe two, of the stalls being installed for 8 stalls or less, or maybe 25% if it's a large station of 16+ stalls.

See above, they will have a Tesla receptacle, so you aren't going to be able to restrict them that way.

 

[acarney]

The vehicle that is rumored to be the first has a Tesla receptacle, so they won't be able to use third-party charging locations. (Unless they have a CCS port as well, or can use the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter.)



That would be better than waiting for older Model Ss where they claim to have been throttled to no more than 40kW charging...



See above, they will have a Tesla receptacle, so you aren't going to be able to restrict them that way.

That's all true, but I don't think there are many of those Model S's limited to that low, at least you don't see many of them complaining compared to how many Tesla's we have out here now.

I'm hoping the 3rd party car is a somewhat low production vehicle. I do worry about crowding at stations and I really would like to see Tesla go some way that allows them to keep priority on Tesla owners. The cars are good, but a HUGE part of the selling package is the charging network. Honestly a Mach E, Kona Electric, or Polestar II probably aren't that far off from a Tesla, but the patch work of charging network is likely keeping a lot more mainstream buying away from them. I would find it much harder to buy a Mach E or Polestar II compared to my Model Y when I think about charging and that this is my only car. Tesla I don't worry about when or where and I know it's pretty consistently going to be fast. The Polestar II after fed tax savings is within hundreds of dollars compared to my Model Y LR. Yes the Y has more range, yes there are a number of things it does better, but if there was an as expansive and reliable network like the supercharger network for the Polestar II, honestly it probably should at least deserve a test drive to compare.... That's the power of the supercharger network to me, I didn't even bother exploring test drive options because I knew the current supercharger network, expansion plans, and reliability were so great there was no comparing. Tesla needs to keep that priority for 1st party owners. How pissed would you be having to wait 20 minutes on a holiday or something seeing a couple Audi's, a few Polestar's, and maybe a Kia or two using *your* supercharger?

 

[Reeler]

Anyone get the Korean adapter from Tesla to try in N.A.?

 

[MP3Mike]

Anyone get the Korean adapter from Tesla to try in N.A.?

As far as I know it hasn't been released yet. Didn't Tesla say it would be released sometime in the first half of the year? So it could be ~5 more months before we see it. (And that assumes that they are on time.)

 

[threeputts]

I assume the ability exists for Tesla superchargers to communicate with non-tesla EVs? I also wonder if they would have to absolve Tesla of any battery damage claims when signing up for an account. I assume it is up to the car to tell the charger what rate it can accept?

don't want to start waiting for a Bolt that can only charge at 70kW or something like that though because it's closer to his house than the 3rd party charger or some BS.

Current Bolt max rate is just 55kw. 50kw for i3 and Leafs with the smaller pack. Konas and Niros are 77kw.

Maybe they could be limited to 50% if the bank of chargers is full (and of course idle fees).