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Tesla making HUGE mistake with Superchargers

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The reason your analogy doesn't work is that it is missing a critical component.

On-site battery storage would be the analogy of the underground fuel storage tank at a gas station.
Sorry, I don't understand the relevance of having batteries at a charging station. While very few do this, it would not change what I wrote at all if everybody did it. Batteries would of course increase the cost of the station, but might allow a lower source cost of electricity. That actually makes what I wrote much stronger, not weaker.
 
Is this a joke? The public fast charging network is a joke and will not be fixed anytime soon.
Look at what the competitors are planning:

Electrify America:
til30v1l62z81.jpg


EVgo:
microsoftteams-image-9.png


...and that's just two companies that have publicly announced their plans.
 
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Look at what the competitors are planning:

Electrify America:
til30v1l62z81.jpg


EVgo:
microsoftteams-image-9.png


...and that's just two companies that have publicly announced their plans.
It is great that they plan to expand so much. But I really think, that at least in EAs case, they should really work on making what they have reliable before installing more.

But the more companies expand the available CCS chargers, the less pressure it puts on Tesla to open the Supercharger network. (After-all Tesla already charges more than EA, so the only reason people would want to use it is because of reliability, and availability.)
 
It is great that they plan to expand so much. But I really think, that at least in EAs case, they should really work on making what they have reliable before installing more.
There is a global supply chain problem right now.

Electrify America simply cannot get the parts it needs to repair its hardware.

This is a problem now, but the global supply chain problem will be resolved at some point.

But the more companies expand the available CCS chargers, the less pressure it puts on Tesla to open the Supercharger network. (After-all Tesla already charges more than EA, so the only reason people would want to use it is because of reliability, and availability.)
On the contrary, more competition would increase pressure on the Supercharger.
 
Indeed, I often talk about how different it is from gasoline. Among the key things to understand are that charging is not the sale of a commodity (kwh) it is the sale (barely) of a service, namely charging. Which is why the commodity costs several times as much when delivered at 200kw than it does delivered at 6kw. Fast and slow gas pumps charge about the same price, in fact in almost all cases the price of gasoline varies just a few percent from the most expensive station in town to the cheapest.

Not so kwh (which is not what you're buying) that average 13 cents in the US home, are 29 to 58 cents at superchargers, and range from free to 55 cents at level 2 public chargers, and can be found anywhere on that scale.

Because selling kwh is not what they do. It's what you have at the end, so you want to think about it that way, but how fast they flow and where the charger is (ie. what you can be doing while charging) matter much more.

So Tesla, when they built the SC network, decided to make it free to all customers for life. They built it not to sell kwh or even service, but to make you want to buy a car. EA stations were built because VW had to pay a huge fine. Most Level 2 stations were put in due to subsidies and grants or to look good.

So of course they are often broken. They are not a business.

They didn't start as a standalone business (specifically Tesla and EA), but they're going to have to figure out to be a sustainable business.

Sure they can use government money to help build out a network, but the network itself needs to be sustainable. Can they be sustainable by themselves (low overhead as they're automated) or does it need support of a store selling $5 candy bars, and $5 bathroom access?

As to Tesla:

You keep saying they are often broken, but that's not the case with Tesla Superchargers.

Tesla chargers were never really free as the cost was added into the cost of the vehicle. I had free supercharging for my ownership period in my Tesla Model 3 Performance, but gave that up for a $5K check from Tesla. This was known as the Fred incident when Fred complained about the cost suddenly going down and then Elon explained that free supercharging was removed. So if a person was willing to give up free supercharging they would get a "refund".

As to gas its pretty well known that Costco gas is on average 35 cents cheaper which can add up to some significant savings. But, obviously that's a membership thing that's sustained by everything else Costco sells.
 
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There is a global supply chain problem right now.

Electrify America simply cannot get the parts it needs to repair its hardware.

This is a problem now, but the global supply chain problem will be resolved at some point.


On the contrary, more competition would increase pressure on the Supercharger.

Did you get that info from a news article?

I'm curious to see what it says because that would help explain why the chargers are broken for so long.

An entire station in Sparks Nevada had all the connectors stolen by some meth head, and instead of saying it was out of service EA simply wiped it off the map in the EA app.
 
It is great that they plan to expand so much. But I really think, that at least in EAs case, they should really work on making what they have reliable before installing more.

But the more companies expand the available CCS chargers, the less pressure it puts on Tesla to open the Supercharger network. (After-all Tesla already charges more than EA, so the only reason people would want to use it is because of reliability, and availability.)
I found that who was cheaper depended on a specific station.

In any case if I had the option right now I'd pick Tesla simply because a few dollars more is worth the time, and hassle.

I might have gotten rid the car, but I'll forever love the network.
 
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Well, I suppose this is what you get when you install four different brands of charging stations. Now EA has to stock and order parts for four different types of equipment. That majorly increases operational overhead and complicates logistics. Perhaps equipment diversity was a mandate of the settlement - an unfortunate, convoluted consequence of emissions cheating.

My money is on the vertically integrated company that has a vested interest in making sure EV charging is successful.
 
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BS. Tesla is opening the Supercharger network because the competitors can't get their acts together, and Tesla's mission requires that other EVs be successful. Electrify America is a mess, with (according to you) an inability to get utility transformers to expand the network, and (also according to you) an inability to get parts to replace broken components in the existing network.

In my opinion, the competition has done more to sour consumers on EVs than promote and enable the transition.

The complete mess that EA is in has soured consumers on EVs.

But, the EVs themselves are great.

I strongly believe in Tesla opening the Supercharger network for a few key reasons

1.) To get the government money to lower the cost of the build out as the build out is the most expensive aspect.
2.) To increase utilization of chargers. Now sure there are stations in California that are already pretty maxed out, but other stations across the US aren't so much. It will be interesting to see which ones are opened up first.
3.) They know they offer highly reliability so they can get away with charging non-Tesla owners more and they'll still charge. This is dependent on location of course
4.) It helps create a loyal following. If people charge at a Tesla supercharger they'll likely look at Tesla's first.
5.) Once people are EV owners they tend to stay EV owners. So its helping the overall transition like you stated.
 
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Did you get that info from a news article?

I'm curious to see what it says because that would help explain why the chargers are broken for so long.

An entire station in Sparks Nevada had all the connectors stolen by some meth head, and instead of saying it was out of service EA simply wiped it off the map in the EA app.
Surprisingly, there have been very journalists that actually want to investigate this issue.

I know for a fact that Electrify America is having trouble getting replacement motherboards.

If the motherboard goes bad, the charger is going to be down for months because there simply is no spare available.
 
I know for a fact that Electrify America is having trouble getting replacement motherboards.

If the motherboard goes bad, the charger is going to be down for months because there simply is no spare available.
Why do you think this will not stop future expansion? Do the new chargers not also need motherboards?

How does the EA map look if you exclude all their current sites due to the current sites being perma-broken?
 
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There is a global supply chain problem right now.

Electrify America simply cannot get the parts it needs to repair its hardware.

This is a problem now, but the global supply chain problem will be resolved at some point.
Then how do you explain Tesla being able to keep their superchargers up and running as well as increasing their install base?

It's not a supply problem, that is just an excuse.
 
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Then how do you explain Tesla being able to keep their superchargers up and running as well as increasing their install base?

It's not a supply problem, that is just an excuse.
Tesla makes its own equipment.

That gives Tesla a lot of flexibility than just placing orders for replacement parts and hoping that they arrive eventually.
 
They didn't start as a standalone business (specifically Tesla and EA), but they're going to have to figure out to be a sustainable business.

Sure they can use government money to help build out a network, but the network itself needs to be sustainable. Can they be sustainable by themselves (low overhead as they're automated) or does it need support of a store selling $5 candy bars, and $5 bathroom access?

As to Tesla:

You keep saying they are often broken, but that's not the case with Tesla Superchargers.

Tesla chargers were never really free as the cost was added into the cost of the vehicle. I had free supercharging for my ownership period in my Tesla Model 3 Performance, but gave that up for a $5K check from Tesla. This was known as the Fred incident when Fred complained about the cost suddenly going down and then Elon explained that free supercharging was removed. So if a person was willing to give up free supercharging they would get a "refund".

As to gas its pretty well known that Costco gas is on average 35 cents cheaper which can add up to some significant savings. But, obviously that's a membership thing that's sustained by everything else Costco sells.
Tesla's approach was sustainable, building the extra costs into the price of the car. As they move to trying to recover costs or make a profit, it does need to be sustainable in a different way, but not like a normal business or gasoline business. Tesla can readily tolerate having a network that loses money or breaks even because it truly is the case that the SC network makes a Tesla by far the best -- some would say the only -- car to road trip in. And lo, 3/4 of EV sales are Teslas, and this is one of the components of that success.

I only got 1K of free supercharging (but earned 4K miles more from referrals.) Still have a few left due to lack of trips during Covid. Unlimited charging led to use of SCs in your home town, which is not sustainable. (Tesla could have and should have offered free supercharging only >100 miles from your home.)

In those early days, Tesla didn't even have SC in the major cities, so you didn't use it near your home. Later, they built up the network there, and started supporting the people who can't charge at home or work. The right solution for that is to get those people charging at home or work, and that's where all laws and subsidies should be directed, not so much at interstates. Maybe a subsidy for chargers in regions where there is no other fast charger for 100 miles, that could be handy.

But this is the problem. Most people have a $1/gallon "gas station" in their home. The EV charging business involves opening up a $4/gallon gas station and hoping to sell these folks gasoline. Not going to happen except when they are away from home and have no other choice. There is a business of serving the people who have no choice, but it's not the big business people imagine.

Even on the road we will see most hotels putting in charging over time. Either free (with hotel stay) or hopefully priced less than fast charging. That eats away a large fraction of the fast charging market. Only people going >200 miles use fast charging at all, and those going 400 miles use one fast charge instead of 2. The few who go >400 miles use 2 fast charges instead of 3.

It's just hard to make a business there. Not like gasoline which is pretty much all the same, and nobody much cares where they get it. EV charging has to come at a place I want to stop for 30 minutes, ideally with food (but I only want that at lunch or dinner) or maybe shopping but who wants to shop for 30 minutes 1-2 times/day on a road trip?

So people put in the stations to get subsidies but they don't get motivated to maintain them. Tesla does maintain them, but some still are broken but their strategy of large stations with >8 stalls means a broken stall means very little, at worst a rare slightly longer wait. A broken stall at a 2-stall station can ruin it.
 
Look at what the competitors are planning:

Electrify America:
til30v1l62z81.jpg


EVgo:
microsoftteams-image-9.png


...and that's just two companies that have publicly announced their plans.
They would be better off by first making sure the ones they have actually work and have more than 2-4 stations at each location. I live in NYS and my experience with public fast chargers has been horrible. No way I would road trip in a non tesla EV around here. However, Our Tesla supercharging has been fantastic and seamless.
 
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They would be better off by first making sure the ones they have actually work and have more than 2-4 stations at each location. I live in NYS and my experience with public fast chargers has been horrible. No way I would road trip in an in tesla EV around here. However, Our Tesla supercharging has been fantastic and seamless.
4 chargers per station are enough for a lot of places.

How often do you think more than 4 people are going to charge at the same time in Wall, SD?
 
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