Tesla Making Unapproved Changes

[ATPMSD]

Forgot about the EULA!

 

[EarlyM3Owner]

I am pretty sure a company can make changes to their product in any manner they want lol look at every other vehicle manufacturer, there are always changes in almost every single model year.

If you are asking why they removed these sensors, then watch this:

 

[Yelobird]

I am pretty sure a company can make changes to their product in any manner they want lol look at every other vehicle manufacturer, there are always changes in almost every single model year.

If you are asking why they removed these sensors, then watch this:

Great video and to the point logic.

 

[nurusz]

You absolutely can just not install any software updates on the car. After you drive it off the lot, just never press the install button on the software that's downloaded to the car - and don't connect it to any wifi. It'll never change.

NOTE: You may never be able to take the car into service, as service may be required to update your firmware when you bring in the car, especially if it involves a government regulated safety recall that was solved with a software update.

Tesla says "We may update or modify the software contained in your Vehicle from time to time, and we may do this remotely without notifying you or seeking your consent"

 

[derotam]

Let’s think about that. This means if Tesla wants to they can disable any software on the car whenever they wish. No more TACC, AP, FSD, etc.

And I do appreciate of the additions.

So if you like the change it's ok for them to have made the change but if you don't like the change then "how dare they!" ???

Public opinion is a strong thing and just as public opinion has led to Tesla adding certain features, it can also stop or reverse Tesla taking something away.

As far as the radar, lots of people are complaining about it BUT, if no one can quantify a degradation in safety or operation of the vehicle when just using vision, then what really is the problem? ...in my opinion. People don't like change and people just can't fathom that radar might not be the only safe solution anymore.

 

[clydeiii]

I love how my 2018 car still feels new in 2022.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I personally believe the owners of vehicles like a Tesla or Rivian need to have representation of some kind.

These types of vehicles are a double edged sword where you can get additional features OTA, but they can also badly break features you used to have. The OTA element also allows the manufacture to drag their feet on releasing promised features.

In both my Tesla and my Rivian I've had features that worked only to be broken in an update.

Like I used to be able to switch between FM radio favorites in my Rivian with the steering wheel, but the Halloween update broke that.

Before I traded in my Tesla I was frustrated that the autolights no longer turned on in the rain during the day. This was something it did just fine on delivery.

The manufactures themselves have their own priorities which often doesn't include restoring proper functionality to existing owners.

 

[ATPMSD]

So if you like the change it's ok for them to have made the change but if you don't like the change then "how dare they!" ???

Public opinion is a strong thing and just as public opinion has led to Tesla adding certain features, it can also stop or reverse Tesla taking something away.

As far as the radar, lots of people are complaining about it BUT, if no one can quantify a degradation in safety or operation of the vehicle when just using vision, then what really is the problem? ...in my opinion. People don't like change and people just can't fathom that radar might not be the only safe solution anymore.

You have missed the point, I should be able to accept or decline updates. I should also be able to roll-back to a prior update, within a reasonable period of time - like with my iPhone. I have no such right at present.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

So if you like the change it's ok for them to have made the change but if you don't like the change then "how dare they!" ???

Public opinion is a strong thing and just as public opinion has led to Tesla adding certain features, it can also stop or reverse Tesla taking something away.

As far as the radar, lots of people are complaining about it BUT, if no one can quantify a degradation in safety or operation of the vehicle when just using vision, then what really is the problem? ...in my opinion. People don't like change and people just can't fathom that radar might not be the only safe solution anymore.

Vision only had a lower max speed limit, and following distance.

In my initial experience with Vision only versus Radar I noticed that the performance in the rain was poor with Vision only. I can't speak to how it is now as I traded in the vehicle for something else many months ago.

The initial rollout of Vision only was also marked by a huge uptick in phantom braking.

The general consensus seemed to be that the whole Vision only thing was rushed.

Elon is known for going fast, and breaking things. He even told people on twitter to be prepared for this.

My overall impression of 4 years of Model 3 owners was enjoyment of the car, but a feeling like Elon/Tesla doesn't really have a whole lot of respect for the owners themselves.

That we often had to deal with poorly performing SW, and no way to engage with tech support on getting the bugs squished.

There also didn't seem be much research taking place at Tesla for what customers actually wanted, and instead it was what Elon wanted for us which included horrendous UI decisions.

 

[UncertainTimes]

Feel like my 2020 has gotten worse since I got it. V11, radar deleted, steering weight now way too light.

 

[Dewg]

The "horrendous" UI is totally subjective, but for me it's easy to use. I can get to almost anything I want in two touches on the screen. And have you driven a BMW with their scroll wheel puck system? Good Lord it takes half-a-dozen twists, presses, and pulls to do anything on that system. It took me 4 just to get to the radio preset station list. With the cold weather one of the tires was running a little low and causing a warning on the dash. It took a press to the menu, a scroll down to maintenance then a press, then a scroll down to the tires, then a press, then a scroll to the warning, then a press, then a press for OK, then a scroll and press to the TPMS, then a scroll and press to reset the TMPS, followed by one final press to begin. UGH.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I can get to almost anything I want in two touches on the screen

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic.

If you hide anything commonly used behind two buttons its a bad UI.

Like Rivian put the "like song" button under another button. Thankfully they fixed that UI mess, but they still have the steering wheel heater button behind the climate control button.

 

[Dewg]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic.

If you hide anything commonly used behind two buttons its a bad UI.

Like Rivian put the "like song" button under another button. Thankfully they fixed that UI mess, but they still have the steering wheel heater button behind the climate control button.

I wasn't being sarcastic - common functions can be pinned to the dock, and the recently used section also shows common apps you like to run. The climate controls you cannot pin are just behind the temperature. It takes me less than a second to press the temp and then immediately press the function I'm looking for. Before they let you pin the heated seats to the dock, you pressed the temp and then the driver's seat icon was 2cm away. Want to adjust your mirrors? Press the car icon, and then the mirrors are right there, as well as the glovebox, the lights, the wipers, the fog lights, etc. Check your tire pressure, press the car icon and then the Service menu.

This isn't Windows where you can pin anything you want to the taskbar, and have a massive taskbar loaded with apps. There is limited real estate in the dock, and so many things the car can do, not everything can fit down there, alongside required items like temperature and audio volume. How many "commonly used" icons are you pressing in the car that cannot be pinned?

Even basics like wipers can be accessed without touching the car menu - just use the wiper stalk to activate a one-time wipe, and the wipers show up on screen. Same for headlights, just push forward on the turn signal stalk to bring up the light controls.

I'm sorry S4 - it's just not the hard once you learn where everything is. And there's voice commands for almost everything to make functions even easier, and just one press of a button to do most anything. Press one button and say "open glovebox". Press one button and say "my butt is cold" and the seat warmers come on.

 

[derotam]

You have missed the point, I should be able to accept or decline updates. I should also be able to roll-back to a prior update, within a reasonable period of time - like with my iPhone. I have no such right at present.

No where in your posts did you even allude to this point. I agree with you to a certain extent however I think that at some point you would end up "forced" to update to get a certain new feature that you may really want. In that case you would end up having to accept all previous changes whether you liked them or not. Now if you are suggesting that you should be able to pick and choose the specific changes that you want to accept, I think that is a little out of the bounds of reality. I don't see any company allowing that type of granularity in their update processes.

Also, even if you were allowed to decline updates, you would only be able to decline certain updates. Anything that Tesla would deem to be a safety or security update would(and I would argue should) still get pushed as mandatory.

 

[Mikecm1]

So if you like the change it's ok for them to have made the change but if you don't like the change then "how dare they!" ???

Public opinion is a strong thing and just as public opinion has led to Tesla adding certain features, it can also stop or reverse Tesla taking something away.

As far as the radar, lots of people are complaining about it BUT, if no one can quantify a degradation in safety or operation of the vehicle when just using vision, then what really is the problem? ...in my opinion. People don't like change and people just can't fathom that radar might not be the only safe solution anymore.

I have a 2020 model 3. My friend has a late 2021 model 3. We’ve tested the cars in socal a bunch of times just on the freeway, and his car has always had phantom braking events on our days on the road where mine with radar hasn’t had a phantom braking event for over 20k miles.

His car unexpectedly abruptly braking is a safety issue. Obviously. This is why I still haven’t installed the update that will remove radar. I’ll probably never update it again unless I’m forced to or vision only gets as good as vision+radar with virtually zero phantom braking events day to day, including not automatically enabling wipers/high beams, follow distance to 1, and max 90mph. Until then I just consider Tesla adding those limitations because they’re not as confident in the software.

In a year or two if this is still an ongoing issue, I’ll for sure be looking at the next gen BMW i4 M50 or comparable. And if you would have asked me one year ago today, I would’ve told you I’d for sure buy a Tesla for my next car.

 

[ZenRockGarden]

Shorty after I bought my car, Tesla took away the ability to limit regenerative braking. Most recently, Tesla decided to remove radar in favor of their Tesla vision. These changes were not mandated by a government agency, these changes were made at Tesla's whim.

What gives Tesla the right to do such things? The arrogance of Tesla is truly shocking!

I think the simplest response would be that if you don't want the changes, you are free to just not authorize any more OTA updates to your car.

 

[Mikecm1]

I think the simplest response would be that if you don't want the changes, you are free to just not authorize any more OTA updates to your car.

Or make major changes like disabling radar opt-in, just like we have to opt into autopilot and other features. They could literally have a radar on/off toggle. If radar is on, then the AP software will be frozen in the state before they disabled it. If enabled, then the user can have the latest code that may or may not work better.

 

[Jpandes]

I just wish my old-ass 2017 MS got all the new features that the newer cars get in the updates. Like, why can't I view car camera images from the app? I do like the fart noises....

 

[ZenRockGarden]

I personally believe the owners of vehicles like a Tesla or Rivian need to have representation of some kind.

These types of vehicles are a double edged sword where you can get additional features OTA, but they can also badly break features you used to have. The OTA element also allows the manufacture to drag their feet on releasing promised features.

In both my Tesla and my Rivian I've had features that worked only to be broken in an update.

Like I used to be able to switch between FM radio favorites in my Rivian with the steering wheel, but the Halloween update broke that.

Before I traded in my Tesla I was frustrated that the autolights no longer turned on in the rain during the day. This was something it did just fine on delivery.

The manufactures themselves have their own priorities which often doesn't include restoring proper functionality to existing owners.

How do you manage to function with updates to the phone you're holding?

 

[ZenRockGarden]

Or make major changes like disabling radar opt-in, just like we have to opt into autopilot and other features. They could literally have a radar on/off toggle. If radar is on, then the AP software will be frozen in the state before they disabled it. If enabled, then the user can have the latest code that may or may not work better.

Does Apple let you "opt in" to each individual feature change of the new version of iOS, or does it come with a single "accept/ignore" button?