Tesla Model 3 Down: Won't Power Up, and is Inaccessible

[arnis]

where there MIGHT be some hydrogen gas

Pretty much not possible with batteries made this century.
Most of them are at least VRLA, if not AGM. There is no meaningful amount of hydrogen generated.

It's an old "right way of doing" - but it doesn't apply any more.

Though it is actually recommended to connect negative lead not directly on the negative battery terminal as
current measuring device is bypassed this way. Some smart vehicles (BMW etc) actually count all the electrons
that are going in or going out of the battery to calculate precise SOH and SOC. But this only makes sense on
"high-end" donor vehicle. At the same time, EV consumes almost NOTHING and M3 battery is tiny. So doesn't really matter.

 

[DFibRL8R]

Pretty much not possible with batteries made this century.
Most of them are at least VRLA, if not AGM. There is no meaningful amount of hydrogen generated.
It's an old "right way of doing" - but it doesn't apply any more...

Makes sense. I would imagine the engineers and lawyers at Tesla wouldn't allow instructions in the manual for how to jump the 12V that are not best practices.

 

[ℬête Noire]

Though it is actually recommended to connect negative lead not directly on the negative battery terminal as current measuring device is bypassed this way.

The rub is that this has become more and more difficult, locating place with adequate connection to ground on vehicles.

 

[ChooseGreen]

I'm thinking that keeping a small 12V USB jump starter in the frunk might be a handy idea. In the event of a 12V failure, ask another vehicle for jumper cables to open the frunk (with their engine off). After that, they can go on their merry way because you have your portable pack to connect to your 12V battery. You don't have to worry them about draining their battery by asking to keep their engine off when they are connected to your 12V battery.

It has the side advantage of being able to jump a stranded ICE without explaining to them that your car isn't suitable for jumping ICE cars.

 

[StraightDave]

I'm thinking that keeping a small 12V USB jump starter in the frunk might be a handy idea. In the event of a 12V failure, ask another vehicle for jumper cables to open the frunk (with their engine off). After that, they can go on their merry way because you have your portable pack to connect to your 12V battery. You don't have to worry them about draining their battery by asking to keep their engine off when they are connected to your 12V battery.

It has the side advantage of being able to jump a stranded ICE without explaining to them that your car isn't suitable for jumping ICE cars.

Yeah that sounds convenient.

 

[arnis]

The rub is that this has become more and more difficult, locating place with adequate connection to ground on vehicles.

AFAIK, any vehicle that has that device on negative pole does have a specified negative terminal, usually a bare bolt specifically for that. That can be found in the owners manual.
Example from BMW (12V battery in the trunk):
Red terminal is always covered, black one is bare, usually conveniently not far away.

It has the side advantage of being able to jump a stranded ICE without explaining to them that your car isn't suitable for jumping ICE cars.

Actually, EV is suitable for charging other vehicle's battery but NOT cranking.
So... another EV - all go. Keep your EV active and connect to another EV in need (avoid negative directly on battery if possible).
In case of ICE - keep ICE vehicle key in your pocket, keep your EV active. Connect both vehicles. Wait for 5 minutes.
Disconnect one cable from both ends. Allow ICE to crank. If unsuccessful, take the key again and charge for 10 minutes.
As a helpful measure, switch off your HVAC system (incl fan, heaters, defrosters), switch off heavy lights of applicable.

 

[arnis]

would using a laptop charger (12V) or an equivalent DC power supply be a viable means of power to top off the battery in an emergency?

Any regulated power source (voltage does not tip 15.5V in no-load state) of at least 12.0V would help. Ideally, 13.0V, this could be left on for months. 13.5V could be left on for a week, 14V could be left on for a day.
Laptop chargers are usually 16-19V. These do not work.

12V USB jump starter

I do not recommend keeping that battery inside the vehicle in hot climate regions. Especially in hot frunk.
Maximum long term exterior temperature for storage should be up to 40*C. In case of black car, frunk can be way more in the sun.

7Ah 12V AGM lead acid battery (usually used in home alarm backup circuits, scooters, UPS devices) costs like 10-15€.
And you don't even have to buy one of you have any of those devices and you can access that battery.
Those portable ones have about the same capacity. It's all about price vs need. Both will do their job.

 

[TEG]

I'm thinking that keeping a small 12V USB jump starter in the frunk might be a handy idea. In the event of a 12V failure, ask another vehicle for jumper cables to open the frunk (with their engine off). After that, they can go on their merry way because you have your portable pack to connect to your 12V battery. You don't have to worry them about draining their battery by asking to keep their engine off when they are connected to your 12V battery.
It has the side advantage of being able to jump a stranded ICE without explaining to them that your car isn't suitable for jumping ICE cars.

Don't forget that you could also use it to open the frunk of a different Model 3 you found stranded.
Say for instance someone else at the Supercharging station was stuck.
But I would like to think that this sort of problem will be so rare, that it would be almost needless to carry an extra 12v battery around.

 

[hrmhrm]

Hey Mark, I cover electric cars for the Los Angeles Times. I'm doing a story about initial Model 3 quality. It's not intended to be a negative piece -- by all accounts the car's a blast to drive. But it seems there are some issues that Tesla needs to resolve, and yours is certainly one of them. Could you give me a buzz at 510-599-4500 or email me at [email protected]? I could just copy parts of the thread here but I'd like to make sure I've got the situation and the facts correct. Thanks much. www.russmitchell.com

 

[ℬête Noire]

AFAIK, any vehicle that has that device on negative pole does have a specified negative terminal, usually a bare bolt specifically for that. That can be found in the owners manual.

Sure, but who's got time to RTFM?

At least one point is pretty much guaranteed to exist, locating a point is just harder now. You need things like this new fangled "literacy" and crap. Where's the sticker?! No, not that sticker, one that's clearer to me! Damn kids now a-days and their gigetty electrical dodads junk.

No I don't have a sideline job of writing script for Sandy Munro videos, why do you ask?

 

[arnis]

I know that reading manuals is for pussies... but actually... it is so important that I do not favour
even a joke about that. Manual is important. If you don't read it, and you screw something up due to that,
you are absolutely one to blame. And even if a kitten dies, I absolutely will not show any sympathy.
Not reading a manual is a crime*, even though everybody has their own way of judging that.

*Not even a joke (in some scenarios).

I'll bring some examples. Filling tires and checking their state is a must. A guy or a granny - doesn't matter.
If you have a blowout because you did not know that (didn't RTFM) you are responsible for whatever happened.
Killed a person - yes, you are to blame. Unintentional murder based on ignorance (aka being stupid) - reckless driving.
Or reckless vehicle usage. One has no right to be stupid while using a vehicle.

Knowing where the negative lead goes is not something that every car user must know. But how to refill a washer
fluid, it is mandatory. If you run out, crash because you didn't see well, didn't know how to refill, you are to blame.

locating a point is just harder now.

It's better to cover as much as possible so people who choose not to RTFM had a hard time to F something up

 

[ChrisH]

Another day gone by, no new updates?

 

[ℬête Noire]

Another day gone by, no new updates?

Yeah, I want to hear if my bet in the "what was the problem" pool pays out!


P.S. It occurred to me later that that betting list was also missing a 6th entry. "Really bad vampire drain on the 12V line, from another system." If it was that it could be the reason for the delay as the tech tries to track down the precise source.

 

[MarkS22]

Another day gone by, no new updates?

I got a notification earlier today that the Model 3 has a software update available, so I can assume it’s on.

This afternoon, I was told it’s still being diagnosed and they will provide more updates soon.

 

[ℬête Noire]

It's better to cover as much as possible so people who choose not to RTFM had a hard time to F something up

That's not really what's been driving it, though. It used to be a mass of [often ferrous] metal under the hood that was quite thick and not really coated or anything. Plus pretty much everything was just simple bolted-on, if it looked like a chunk of steel it was basically ground and a thick enough connection that you'd not have any resistance issues.

As more heavily engineered designs evolved the materials moved with that, along with things to provide better protection against corrosion and so on. As well vehicle sizes shrunk so it got really crowded in there plus cowling was added to control airflow and so on.

P.S. Of course the greatly improved engineering also drove the value of RTFM for other very good reasons you point out in your post.

 

[Ulmo]

It's Tesla users who have changed the meaning of bricked. In plain English, it's not related to batteries at all. As noted in Wikipedia: "The word "brick", when used in reference to consumer electronics, describes an electronic device such as a smartphone, game console, router, or tablet computer that, due to severe physical damage, a serious misconfiguration, corrupted firmware, or a hardware problem, can no longer function, hence, is as technologically useful as a brick."

I think it's an accurate description of my current situation, as well as how I've always used it. While I was vaguely aware of "battery bricking," I genuinely had no idea is was still a term that's solely relegated to "permanent damage to the battery system." What would we call a vehicle that won't start because of corrupted firmware or a broken piece of hardware, for example?

That said, I'm happy to avoid using the word if it's taken the wrong way here.

Oh! That's not as bad then. The idea that "bricked" means possibly other than a dead, never to be recoverable, battery, does seem to make sense, but I admit I did first think of the dead, never to be recoverable, battery, definition first, so when you said bricked, I thought, no, that's extreme, and I didn't consider alternatives, but I did think to myself, maybe he doesn't use the word the same way I do, and so, it turns out, that was the case. By the way, back when I was jailbreaking my iPhone, brick meant unrecoverable, and I never read of anybody using the word to mean recoverable, however, I'm open to the possibility that brick could have transformed meaning into something like "like a brick right now" but not permanently (even though this is the first time I've heard that use).

 

[Drewflux]

I know that reading manuals is for pussies...

Around here we call manuals, distructions. Because the only time you read them is when you break something.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Oh! That's not as bad then. The idea that "bricked" means possibly other than a dead, never to be recoverable, battery, does seem to make sense, but I admit I did first think of the dead, never to be recoverable, battery, definition first, so when you said bricked, I thought, no, that's extreme, and I didn't consider alternatives, but I did think to myself, maybe he doesn't use the word the same way I do, and so, it turns out, that was the case. By the way, back when I was jailbreaking my iPhone, brick meant unrecoverable, and I never read of anybody using the word to mean recoverable, however, I'm open to the possibility that brick could have transformed meaning into something like "like a brick right now" but not permanently (even though this is the first time I've heard that use).

While I agree "bricked" has a special meaning in Tesla circles, and @MarkS22 used a different meaning, not even "bricked" Tesla roadsters were unrecoverable though. All you had to do was replace the battery and they were good to go again.

In the usual meaning "bricked" just means a device you can't mend with usual home tricks. A repair shop can nearly always fix a bricked device, though.

Incidentally, something that may well be what they'll to do @MarkS22, though 12V in this case (or its charging circuitry).

What @MarkS22's use of the word failed to note, though, is that "bricked" has become to mean an unrecoverable (or hard to recover) drained main battery in Tesla/BEV parlance. That is obviously not the case here. But @MarkS22 did use the "bricked" term correctly in its general meaning.

 

[Canuck]

How about you just use plain English to describe something if you don’t know the jargon?

He knows the jargon. You and others who get all worked up about it need to chill out. The word "bricked" is similar to calling something a "paperweight" when it breaks. If some people decide it applies to one item only (the traction battery) and that item must be completely dead when it breaks, never to work again, they are wrong, not the OP.

Right. And a bricked vehicle is only useful as a brick. Non-repairable. Battery only useful as a paperweight

When did we add "only" when calling something that breaks a "paperweight"? I've said to my kids "it's now a paperweight" when a phone screen smashed. Of course, it could be fixed but I was planning to replace it anyway. You're telling me that's the wrong use of that term? If so, I disagree. It was completely proper.

If people here want clarity, please give us "bricked" and "paperweight" back and you folks use "unrepairable" instead of "bricked". Then you'll have the clarity you want without changing the proper meaning and use of these terms.

It's not that Roadster owners are overly sensitive. It's that we have dealt with the fallout from the use of the term.

The reason for changing the meaning of these words, because of how it makes certain Roadster owners feel, even accepting they are not overly sensitive, is not good enough justification to change its meaning, at least for me. I'm completely fine with changing the meaning of "gay" to protect feelings. However, the arguments made here do not even come close to justifying a meaning change in my view.

 

[Barklikeadog]

I got a notification earlier today that the Model 3 has a software update available, so I can assume it’s on.

This afternoon, I was told it’s still being diagnosed and they will provide more updates soon.

Just make sure you are not getting static reception on your TV with something that sounds like 'help me' coming through the speakers...