Tesla Model 3 vs BMW 3 Series (Electrek)

[JoaoD]

Unfortunately what AustinPowers and Phrixotrichus are trying to tell is true. In Europe the Model 3 reality will be very different from the USA one. There are practically no rebates in most countries here, and none that comes close to the 7500 tax rebate.
To the base price after the rate conversion and import costs that Tesla has to carry to bring the car over here you will have to had 19-25% of VAT. That will make the base Model 3 at least 40.000€
Also the other cars base price already include the VAT and like it has been said most people buy the car lower than MSRP because people over here prefer to have to waggle the prices than have a lower MSRP.
I believe the Model 3 is a great car and not bad value for what it gives, but in Europe it will be nowhere close to the bargain that it is in USA with a 7500 tax rebate.

 

[gowthamn]

From the verge
Tesla’s Model 3 isn’t a luxury car, but it’s priced like one | The Verge

If you purchase a standard Tesla Model 3, the seats must be manually adjusted, as will the steering column. The side mirrors aren’t powered or heated, and there’s no auto dimming. There are no LED fog lamps, and if you want a covered storage area in the center console, you must pay extra.
All these features are standard in a BMW 3 Series

Also why don't people compare the range of a BMW with that of a Tesla? Everyone is continently leaving that out.

 

[JeffK]

Leg room measurements can only be relied as ball park. How far back the front seat is positioned will affect it, and it also fails to factor in certain details (like how the 3 series has a drive shaft tunnel; is there a space under the front seat for your feet, etc).

Actually sitting in the seats and comparing is probably more reliable.

Well, it's technically listed as a spec on the presskit website:
VEHICLE SPECIFICATIONS
Dimensions & Weight

• Length: 184.8”
• Width: 76.1” (72.8” with mirrors folded)
• Height: 56.8”
• Wheelbase: 113.2”
• Track (wheel center): 62.2” front and rear
• Ground clearance: 5.5”
• Head room, standard: 39.6” front row, 37.7” second row
• Head room, glass roof: 40.3” front row, 37.7” second row
• Leg room: 42.7” front row, 35.2” second row
• Shoulder room: 56.3” front row, 54.0” second row
• Hip room: 53.4” front row, 52.4” second row
• Seating capacity: 5 adults
• Luggage capacity: 15 cubic feet
• Curb weight:
  • 3549 lbs. (Model 3)
  • 3814 lbs. (Model 3 Long Range)
• Weight distribution:
  • 47% front, 53% rear (Model 3)
  • 48% front, 52% rear (Model 3 Long Range)

 

[Phrixotrichus]

From the verge
Tesla’s Model 3 isn’t a luxury car, but it’s priced like one | The Verge

If you purchase a standard Tesla Model 3, the seats must be manually adjusted, as will the steering column. The side mirrors aren’t powered or heated, and there’s no auto dimming. There are no LED fog lamps, and if you want a covered storage area in the center console, you must pay extra.
All these features are standard in a BMW 3 Series

Also why don't people compare the range of a BMW with that of a Tesla? Everyone is continently leaving that out.

Because that would make the comparison realistic and somewhat relevant for real world use. And no one wants realism, just hype.
That you usually get 20%-30% off of any BMW/Mercedes/VW you purchase while you get exactly 0% at Tesla is another thing that people completely ignore....

The Verge article seems to be completely in line with what I´ve seen so far.
I`ll definitely have a look at the car up close when it`s finally available here, but I don`t expect to be surprised.

 

[jelloslug]

ugh. base 3 series these days is stripped down, underpowered, fluffy POS. you really need to spend at least $10k for upgraded engine + suspension to make a 3 series semi-worthwhile these days.

Exactly. I had them as loaners several time when the i3 I had was in the shop for warranty work. I was seriously wondering how anyone would justify paying $35k for that car.

 

[EinSV]

Unfortunately what AustinPowers and Phrixotrichus are trying to tell is true. In Europe the Model 3 reality will be very different from the USA one. There are practically no rebates in most countries here, and none that comes close to the 7500 tax rebate.
To the base price after the rate conversion and import costs that Tesla has to carry to bring the car over here you will have to had 19-25% of VAT. That will make the base Model 3 at least 40.000€
Also the other cars base price already include the VAT and like it has been said most people buy the car lower than MSRP because people over here prefer to have to waggle the prices than have a lower MSRP.
I believe the Model 3 is a great car and not bad value for what it gives, but in Europe it will be nowhere close to the bargain that it is in USA with a 7500 tax rebate.

Using Germany as an example, assuming your 40,000€ estimate for the Model 3 is correct (I haven't confirmed) it still looks like a compelling deal compared to the 330i.

Base price for a 330i automatic on the BMW Germany website is 44,650€ compared to $38,650 in the U.S. (32,754€ with current exchange rates) -- so much higher in Germany than in the U.S. mein.bmw.de/b4v2h3e4

With a comparable package of options from the Electrek article (adding Navigation, parking sensors and safety features from AP) results in an MSRP of $50,140€ -- about 25% higher than your estimate for the Model 3.

So even with a significant discount off MSRP the Model 3 appears to be very competitive to the BMW 330i price wise. And this is before taking into account fuel savings and 4000€ tax rebate, which would seem to make the Model 3 a clear winner financially over the 330i, even in Germany.

 

[JoaoD]

Using Germany as an example, assuming your 40,000€ estimate for the Model 3 is correct (I haven't confirmed) it still looks like a compelling deal compared to the 330i.

Base price for a 330i automatic on the BMW Germany website is 44,650€ compared to $38,650 in the U.S. (32,754€ with current exchange rates) -- so much higher in Germany than in the U.S. mein.bmw.de/b4v2h3e4

With a comparable package of options from the Electrek article (adding Navigation, parking sensors and safety features from AP) results in an MSRP of $50,140€ -- about 25% higher than your estimate for the Model 3.

So even with a significant discount off MSRP the Model 3 appears to be very competitive to the BMW 330i price wise. And this is before taking into account fuel savings and 4000€ tax rebate, which would seem to make the Model 3 a clear winner financially over the 330i, even in Germany.

No doubt that the Model 3 is still competitive, but still much less affordable that in the USA.
Although the BMW is also more expensive, in my recent personal experience shopping 2 cars for other people across different brands, the website MSRP is the worst price you can pay for a car, I was never given a quote by the dealers as high as the website. Depending on where you buy, what campaigns the dealer has, and how much profit he wants to make from you, you could pay more or less the same as the base Model 3. Which is an annoyance in my opinion having to get multiple quotes from different dealers for the same car.

If you take in consideration the USA base price of the Model S right now ( 69.500$ + 1.200$ delivery fee) and the equivalent car in Germany (76.870€ (base car + convenience package which is included in the base price in USA) + 440€ delivery fee) this would give an equivalent of 38.711€ + 440€ for the 35.000$ Model 3.
However by looking at Portugal values it would be 41.522€ + 220€ delivery fees, since Model S price and VAT varies.
This is were my ~40.000€ price estimate for Europe comes from.

 

[ecarfan]

Great article over on Electrek comparing the Model 3 with the BMW 3 series while ignoring the fact that the former is electric, open for incentives and costs a small fraction as much to operate. The comparison is focused solely on what features you get standard or as options and for what price.

The Electrek article does not "ignore" the fact that the 3 is an EV. The title of the article makes clear what it is about, and as you yourself said the article focuses on a feature comparison. And here is a quote from the article:

"Now what about the price and options without taking into account that one is gas-powered and the other is electric?"

 

[Phrixotrichus]

Using Germany as an example, assuming your 40,000€ estimate for the Model 3 is correct (I haven't confirmed) it still looks like a compelling deal compared to the 330i.

Base price for a 330i automatic on the BMW Germany website is 44,650€ compared to $38,650 in the U.S. (32,754€ with current exchange rates) -- so much higher in Germany than in the U.S. mein.bmw.de/b4v2h3e4

With a comparable package of options from the Electrek article (adding Navigation, parking sensors and safety features from AP) results in an MSRP of $50,140€ -- about 25% higher than your estimate for the Model 3.

So even with a significant discount off MSRP the Model 3 appears to be very competitive to the BMW 330i price wise. And this is before taking into account fuel savings and 4000€ tax rebate, which would seem to make the Model 3 a clear winner financially over the 330i, even in Germany.

Example
A top of the line BMW330i for 50k.
Then we get 30% off (standard for bmw in my company) then we`re looking at 35k from that we get another 2-3 off for business packages yaddayadda.
The Model S prices are the same as on their website. Even for a big company like ours Tesla doesn`t give any %.
With VAT transport etc the Model 3 will be available for ~38-40k in the base version....if we`re lucky.
Add the premium package so it doesn´t look like a go-kart interior anymore and the the battery at least and you're looking at ~55k€ without the autopilot which is already far beyond the entry prices of a 5 series thanks to the huge rebates we get.

So no offense, but you`re really far off with your train of thoughts here .
In Europe the Model 3`s prices will be far in the luxury sedan class and in no way get close to "beating" the established middle class models on the financial side.
As the system is now at least in Europe the 3 will be an absolute enthusiast car for the foreseeable future, and nowhere near mass market.
Add to that the miserable EV infrastructure and the grip the car lobby has around the throats of our politicians in central europe and you can imagine the amount of sales the model 3 might get here.

The financially most important market however is neither the us nor europe but asia. And I have no idea how it will look there.

 

[zenmaster]

Are you sure a buyer would purchase a 330i and add all the options vs buying a 340i where many of those options are standard? I know a loaded 2-series cost more than an M2 with all the options and you get less of a car.

 

[Just a Reader]

Model 3 comes standard in 18" wheels, not 17".
....
All exterior lights (which would include headlights) are LED.
..

Do the LED headlights have washer jets now or has their light output still to be reduced in Europe because the washer jets are lacking? The LED headlights of the A4 and the C Class may be pricey but they are outstanding. Not to have these headlights as an option would be a serious drawback.

 

[EinSV]

Example
A top of the line BMW330i for 50k.
Then we get 30% off (standard for bmw in my company) then we`re looking at 35k from that we get another 2-3 off for business packages yaddayadda.
The Model S prices are the same as on their website. Even for a big company like ours Tesla doesn`t give any %.
With VAT transport etc the Model 3 will be available for ~38-40k in the base version....if we`re lucky.
Add the premium package so it doesn´t look like a go-kart interior anymore and the the battery at least and you're looking at ~55k€ without the autopilot which is already far beyond the entry prices of a 5 series thanks to the huge rebates we get.

So no offense, but you`re really far off with your train of thoughts here .
In Europe the Model 3`s prices will be far in the luxury sedan class and in no way get close to "beating" the established middle class models on the financial side.
As the system is now at least in Europe the 3 will be an absolute enthusiast car for the foreseeable future, and nowhere near mass market.
Add to that the miserable EV infrastructure and the grip the car lobby has around the throats of our politicians in central europe and you can imagine the amount of sales the model 3 might get here.

The financially most important market however is neither the us nor europe but asia. And I have no idea how it will look there.

Actually, if you add the premium package to a Model 3 that only adds $5K US, so say 5000 Euro with VAT (not 15K), so 43-45K Euro using your estimate of 38-40K Euro for the base Model 3.

If you add comparable features to the PUP package to the 330i it raises the price to 56K Euros v. 43-45K for the Model 3 with PUP.

So any way you slice it, even with a 30% discount (the top end of your range), it looks like the Model 3 should be competitive on price, even in Germany, and even before taking into account incentives and cost savings from fueling with electricity instead of gasoline. And you mention Autopilot price but if someone wants Autopilot BMW doesn't have anything to offer.

 

[stopcrazypp]

From the verge
Tesla’s Model 3 isn’t a luxury car, but it’s priced like one | The Verge

If you purchase a standard Tesla Model 3, the seats must be manually adjusted, as will the steering column. The side mirrors aren’t powered or heated, and there’s no auto dimming. There are no LED fog lamps, and if you want a covered storage area in the center console, you must pay extra.
All these features are standard in a BMW 3 Series

Also why don't people compare the range of a BMW with that of a Tesla? Everyone is continently leaving that out.

Fact Check, glad I did not trust your claims as they are almost all wrong and the listed options are not standard in a BMW 3 Series!

BMW 320i base model:
6-way manually adjustable front seats; includes 2-way manual headrests
Tilt/telescopic steering wheel column (not powered; powered adjustment doesn't appear to even be option on 3-series).
Power-adjustable, manually folding side mirrors (Model 3 is the same); not heated, not dimming (330i or higher required for driver side dimming)
Halogen high- and low-beam headlights, Halogen free-form front fog lights; not LED foglights until optioned higher (Model 3 has LED lights all around; fog light optional)
Storage area (the BMW has a shifter where Tesla has the open storage area; the Model 3 has the same armrest storage area).
Home - BMW North America
Press Kit | Tesla

 

[stopcrazypp]

Well, it's technically listed as a spec on the presskit website:
VEHICLE SPECIFICATIONS
Dimensions & Weight

• Length: 184.8”
• Width: 76.1” (72.8” with mirrors folded)
• Height: 56.8”
• Wheelbase: 113.2”
• Track (wheel center): 62.2” front and rear
• Ground clearance: 5.5”
• Head room, standard: 39.6” front row, 37.7” second row
• Head room, glass roof: 40.3” front row, 37.7” second row
• Leg room: 42.7” front row, 35.2” second row
• Shoulder room: 56.3” front row, 54.0” second row
• Hip room: 53.4” front row, 52.4” second row
• Seating capacity: 5 adults
• Luggage capacity: 15 cubic feet
• Curb weight:
  • 3549 lbs. (Model 3)
  • 3814 lbs. (Model 3 Long Range)
• Weight distribution:
  • 47% front, 53% rear (Model 3)
  • 48% front, 52% rear (Model 3 Long Range)

I'm talking exactly about specs like that. It's ambiguous how far back the seat is when those are measured (or even if they are both measured in the same position). And that spec does not tell you about the drive shaft hump in the 3 series, and whether there is an empty space under the front seat for your feet.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

Actually, if you add the premium package to a Model 3 that only adds $5K US, so say 5000 Euro with VAT (not 15K), so 43-45K Euro using your estimate of 38-40K Euro for the base Model 3.

If you add comparable features to the PUP package to the 330i it raises the price to 56K Euros v. 43-45K for the Model 3 with PUP.

So any way you slice it, even with a 30% discount (the top end of your range), it looks like the Model 3 should be competitive on price, even in Germany, and even before taking into account incentives and cost savings from fueling with electricity instead of gasoline. And you mention Autopilot price but if someone wants Autopilot BMW doesn't have anything to offer.

äh no, the range is important, don`t forget about the battery...

~40k base price.
9k battery
5k premium
=54k without autopilot

And for the BMW
at 56k
=> -30% = 48200
- business packages = ~47k

thats`s still in the very best case where the tesla packages cost the same in € as in $ (usually 10-20% more) at least 7k more for the Model 3 than for a high end BMW3. That`s not a complete no go, but still very substantial.
especially considering that the 5 series is already available at 54k :/

Well anyways, let`s just say, that the Model 3 is definitely way up there in the premium segment.

 

[EinSV]

äh no, the range is important, don`t forget about the battery...

~40k base price.
9k battery
5k premium
=54k without autopilot

And for the BMW
at 56k
=> -30% = 48200
- business packages = ~47k

thats`s still in the very best case where the tesla packages cost the same in € as in $ (usually 10-20% more) at least 7k more for the Model 3 than for a high end BMW3. That`s not a complete no go, but still very substantial.
especially considering that the 5 series is already available at 54k :/

Well anyways, let`s just say, that the Model 3 is definitely way up there in the premium segment.

Many Model 3 buyers won't want or need all the options or the large battery, which also boosts Model 3 performance. In any case, looks like the Model 3 pricing in Germany compares very favorably to 330i whether base model or fully loaded, even before incentives and gas savings, which should work in Model 3's favor.

Will be interesting to see what sort of reception the Model 3 gets in Germany and throughout Europe.

 

[chronopc]

It's interesting to compare the Model 3 to other luxury cars, but for me there's only one comparison that matters. Is the Model 3 half as expensive as the Model S? Yes?

 

[Phrixotrichus]

Will be interesting to see what sort of reception the Model 3 gets in Germany and throughout Europe.

My personal guess is that the sales will be negligible. The car market in europe is complete backwards thanks to the lobby work and the politicians kissing the car lobbies butts.....fortunately though our market means nothing anymore and the new interesting markets in asia are pressing electro mobility.

 

[EXOTIC1]

Don't forget there could be software update that increases the 0-60 for the 2 early base cars
that may further reduce 0-60 times by two-three tenths of a second as seen with the MS models.

 

[David-El]

From the verge
Tesla’s Model 3 isn’t a luxury car, but it’s priced like one | The Verge

If you purchase a standard Tesla Model 3, the seats must be manually adjusted, as will the steering column. The side mirrors aren’t powered or heated, and there’s no auto dimming. There are no LED fog lamps, and if you want a covered storage area in the center console, you must pay extra.
All these features are standard in a BMW 3 Series

Also why don't people compare the range of a BMW with that of a Tesla? Everyone is continently leaving that out.

Isn't the steering wheel only power adjustable, as well as the side mirrors, since they're controlled through the touch screen and wheel buttons? Rear view is auto dimming (side mirrors auto dimming, power folding and heated with the PUP), and you always have the covered storage under the armrest, it's the other area that is uncovered without the PUP.