With province election around the corner, Liberal must be politically "right" specially there is so many Tesla haters around.
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Tesla (Model S & X) no longer eligible for Ontario rebate?
- Thread starter jkirkwood001
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With province election around the corner, Liberal must be politically "right" specially there is so many Tesla haters around.
sakimano
Active Member
Long range, awd, premium, autopilot, not full self driving with a colour other than the basics and stock wheels would be about $73,000 + hst including delivery if I'm right.
Not sure what ludicrous, air suspension (if offered) or anything else would be.
No worries, only base price of a trim counts, PUP, colour, EAP, etc not counts toward MSRP. So for Model 3 waitors we are safe as long as Liberal still here and USD-CAD not going below 66..
Interested to learn what Tesla did after Germany announced max Cap for the rebate.
Tesla Model S Qualifies For German Incentives Due To Creative Price Reduction
Tesla removed from German subsidies program
Tesla Model S Qualifies For German Incentives Due To Creative Price Reduction
Tesla removed from German subsidies program
RedOctober
Member
It’s not like the government it out any money on these incentives. First off it’s money they receive for the carbon market cap and trade program they have in place and secondly they are just giving back the provincial tax they get from the sell of the car. If you want to break the cycle and get off ICE vehicles you have to provide incentives. The $75,000.00 is just an arbitrary number the government came up with as a ceiling. So saying there is no reason to give people an incentive on cars over $75,000.00 just fits in with people who can’t afford a more expensive car. So let’s just set the cut off number at $35,000.00 and make the incentive $1,000.00. How about that, does that work for you. If you want to receive green energy incentives let’s make it just for EV’s not hybrids.
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RedOctober
Member
That was my point earlier on this thread. Most of these cars are really iCE vehicles. I bought my model S for the range which no one else had. I would rather see a vehicle that is all electric and gets 400 plus kms on a charger get an incentive than a car that gets 25-50 kms on a charge because anytime that car hits the highway or goes out of town you they are on gas.
Clearly, the government is doing it wrong with the incentive system, because BEV sales are still below 1% here. Look at Norway, they reached over 50% in December and they do not have the government give any money to people buying EVs. Instead they have heavy taxes on ICEs, i.e. carbon tax. That system works, so it should be followed and then nobody could complain that the government gives money to rich people buying expensive cars.
mrElbe
Active Member
Price the Model S and X " Battery not included "
Wouldn’t work. The rebate is now based on range. Without a battery, range is zero, so there would be no rebate.
Instead, people would complain that the government makes systems that only rich people can work around, since the taxes would target affordable gas vehicles and you can skirt them by buying a Tesla.
In general, the fact of the matter is that most Canadians believe that the taxes should heavily tax the wealthy in order to provide essential services (medicine, education, etc.) and that the rich are most likely avoiding those taxes with complex schemes that the average person can't understand.
The top 1% income earners altogether account for 11% of all income earned in Canada, and pay 22% of all taxes collected (source). About 6,000 Canadians in this bracket avoided paying any tax at all, but they are a small portion of this 11% of all Canadian income earned (source). William Watson tries to make the case for high income earners getting some respect/thanks for their contribution to the tax pie, but I suspect his message doesn't generally resonate, though the graphic provided is good.
Bottom line: on your $148,500 CAD Tesla, you'd pay $19,000+ in HST alone, enough to cover the entire cost of your own rebate. In other words, on a Tesla, your government "rebate" isn't the government giving you someone else's money, it's them giving you back your own money. On your $36,000 Nissan leaf, your HST would cover only about $4,500 of your incentive, leaving the government the need to find about $10,000 of other people's money to fund your purchase.
However such arguments are very unpopular, because the mere fact that you can afford a Tesla means you're in the top 1% and deserve to pay other people's rebates, but not your own.
I'm reading your long message, @anicolao, but I'm dense and it's still unclear to me if you actually do or don't support the policy for all vehicles, or if you think those buying "luxury" vehicles shouldn't benefit from rebates?
If there were no Model 3 (assuming the rebate stays as-is well past the next election), then I could see more argument for allowing the S and X to get a rebate, with the thinking being there was no alternative. But the 3 is in many respects a cheaper mini-S.
I need all-wheel drive for winter access outside of the city, so most competitors models don't meet my needs. The 3 qualifies for the rebate, the S doesn't. If I don't have money to spare, then I buy the 3 and get the rebate. If I do have money to spare, I don't need the rebate and I can buy an S.
Do you agree?
If there were no Model 3 (assuming the rebate stays as-is well past the next election), then I could see more argument for allowing the S and X to get a rebate, with the thinking being there was no alternative. But the 3 is in many respects a cheaper mini-S.
I need all-wheel drive for winter access outside of the city, so most competitors models don't meet my needs. The 3 qualifies for the rebate, the S doesn't. If I don't have money to spare, then I buy the 3 and get the rebate. If I do have money to spare, I don't need the rebate and I can buy an S.
Do you agree?
You're not being dense, I didn't take a position on the matter. I don't have enough information available to me to have a position, and that means I don't have a position. As someone who owns two Model X's, I have a bias in favour of these vehicles qualifying for rebates, but that's not the same thing as knowing what the right policy is.
Factors that would affect my conclusion would be:
1) percentage of gasoline costs that are taxes, and what those taxes are used for (~35%? source)
2) whether there's a measurable effect from luxury EV's being on the road on non-luxury buyers (ie. do Teslas == more EV sales)
3) whether there are data to show that luxury EV buyers are influenced by the credit (in my case, it influenced my choices, but that's not data)
I am in general in favour of the government running programs that encourage EV adoption, like rebates, HOV lanes that are open to single EV drivers, EVSE incentives, etc. However I think it is possible to argue at this point that EVs are on a path to adoption whether our government provides incentives or not and so it is possibly wasting resources to have any incentives at this point. Such a position I think is likely to be taken around 2020.
Meanwhile it has to be noted that as a democracy, our government will naturally create policies that favour the majority. It's easy PR that fits into the national psyche to not provide rebates for luxury vehicles, and so we can expect the government to ignore the above factors as they do not correlate well with re-election.
I split this out because it's not clear if it's a hypothetical or an actual situation. If it's an actual situation, the reality today is that you can't buy a Model 3. If you need all-wheel drive, used inventory may not hit your price range either. So there is no EV you can buy that meets your needs, and you should buy a used ICE to tide you over until the CPO prices drop enough on Model S or you can actually buy a Model 3.
It will be too late to decide buy a Model 3. If reserving a Model 3 today, you won't see the car until 2020, and at that time the Rebates are gone all together.
It'll be interesting to see the effect on Tesla sales these next few months.
Truth is that Teslas are still too expensive to make to push into the mainstream.
I like the analysis of the earlier post about the amount of taxes on a Tesla. I'd argue that if governments want to encourage EV sales - eliminate the tax and forget about the other arbitrary incentives.
Basically my real case. I do not need a car urgently, but I need awd (driving one of the last Suzuki 2013 SX4's I bought for $17 K), so I can't bring myself to pay over $100 K for a replacement. From my avatar, you can see I also have a 2007 Miata, so the 3 I'm on the list for, and so I can finally get into EV, would be primarily a winter car.
Besides the expensive S and X, what AWD EV options do I have before the 3 arrives?
SmartElectric
Active Member
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