Tesla (Model S & X) no longer eligible for Ontario rebate?

[TrevTremaine]

Agree and disagree. Incentives should not be to cherry pick based on the price of the car. It’s actual intention should be to reduce carbon emissions and provide a bonus to anyone who reduces yet another ice vehicle off the road.

And which actually costs taxpayers more out of pocket in terms of subsidizing an EV buyer?


50k bolt - 6k hst
14 rebate
Net: -8k to the govnt

130k tesla - 16.9k hst
14 rebate
Net: +2.9k to govnt

150k Tesla - 19.5k hst
14 rebate
Net: +5.5k to govnt

I’m addition, the luxury buyer is likely forgoing a luxury V8, premium ice vehicle ie. Mercedes, E/S , Porsche Cayenne/911, BMW 535/750/x5/x7, Audi A6/S7/A8, Land Rovers etc
Thereby reducing quite a bit of carbon footprint.

The mid range buyer is likely to be foregoing a similarly classed vehicle ie. Acura, bmw 3, Merc c, Honda Accord, Camry, Ford Fusion etc etc. Many of which have efficient 4 cyl engines and much lower footprint.

All I’m saying is why cherry pick and penalize those who have consciously made the commitment to bring another EV to the road and reduce Ice? As an owner of an MS and soon MX, I can say I look forward to the incentive rebate (just scrapped in) as it reduces my overall out of pocket over my 4 yr lease. I’m not what anyone would consider affluent but by grace my business can lease this vehicle and earn it’s tax write off as well as net reduction through the rebate. I think I may have been slower to consider the MX if the 14k was gone.

I agree the fact that it’s going to help a lot of mid range buyers adopt EV’s as they are more price concious and would generally made a final call based on the incentive to shift.

Fair points. But I'm sure that this government is doing it because they are behind in the polls leading up to the election.

 

[ZooSean]

I'm not surprised by Wynne's move - expect even more if she wins.

What I believe is another way, she may include S/X again after winning the election. She promises use Carbon $ to achieve certain % of green car in Ontario by 2022, taking out S/X will not let her to do so..

 

[ZooSean]

Not debating as I haven't followed pricing since I thought the evip was guaranteed safe so I would have check all boxes minus P (for performance...lol Need to specify if you've followed that other thread).

What price do you think LR-AWD would come in at with all options, then all options minus wheels, eap, and fsd?

You need to follow this thread. It clearly said in Ontario new program FAQ, the options and add-on are not considered as total MSRP. So only basic trim counts towards MSRP, so we have LR, SR, LR+AWD, SR+AWD, not counting options (such as rim, colour, premium, EAP. Full AP etc). With that, most expensive LR+AWD will not exceed 75K cap for sure..I don't even know if AWD will consider as option or trim.

Further to that, one guy actually bought a X for total price of 180K, but he got the 14K rebate at the time 150K is cap for EV rebate as the base for 100D X is not exceed 150K..

 

[ZooSean]

In one sense, I'm fine with it. If it focuses on more mainstream EVs that will get more people out of ICEs then great. The threshold is now showing $75K on the MTO website. The BMW i8 is no longer eligible. See below.

Eligible Electric Vehicles
Perhaps they've done some additional updates to reflect that the i8 isn't eligible.

That said, some other vehicles that are being touted as hybrids and have paltry EV range shouldn't get much of an incentive - especially the likes of BMW, Mini, Volvo, Mercedes and Mistubishi where you probably couldn't do a milk run without having the engine kicking in.

I'm not surprised by Wynne's move - expect even more if she wins.

MSRP refers to the price of the base trim.

We do not yet know if LR AWD is affected because it depends if battery choice and AWD are considered trim levels or different models with their own base price. I’m sure Tesla will be making the case that they are trim levels. If they are, Model 3 is completely safe.

Why don’t tesla offer a tesla in Ontario that is $74999 but with software locked to valet mode, no nav, no ac, SW locked to 40kw, L1 charging only, no any feature that is not legally required in a car, and then offer the unlock package to get it all back? Limit 1 per org per person per year so another corp won’t buy these just to screw Tesla over.

I believe you mean options or trim levels, and that Tesla will be making the case that AWD is an option.
However as they have different configuration dates and motor set ups, I fear they are going to be trim levels.

Not debating as I haven't followed pricing since I thought the evip was guaranteed safe so I would have check all boxes minus P (for performance...lol Need to specify if you've followed that other thread).

What price do you think LR-AWD would come in at with all options, then all options minus wheels, eap, and fsd?

Options are not count towards MSRP, it is clearly mentioned in FAQ. So the most expensive LR+AWD will not reach the cap, unless CAD-USD becomes 66$.

 

[kzod]

What I believe is another way, she may include S/X again after winning the election. She promises use Carbon $ to achieve certain % of green car in Ontario by 2022, taking out S/X will not let her to do so..

Nobody that can afford $150,000 for the car deserves a government handout. Better off paying people to get rid of their 20 year old cars, raising gas prices, etc. Yes, we all want to line our own pockets at others expense while claiming it's for the greater good but really it's selfish behavior that won't improve the situation. Don't get me wrong I'll still take my rebate if they have it when I get my Model 3. I figure I've earned it based on how much taxes I pay, and the fact that only a fool passes on free money. But I wouldn't cry if they stopped this bribery which has proven incredibly ineffective.

 

[ZooSean]

Nobody that can afford $150,000 for the car deserves a government handout. Better off paying people to get rid of their 20 year old cars, raising gas prices, etc. Yes, we all want to line our own pockets at others expense while claiming it's for the greater good but really it's selfish behavior that won't improve the situation. Don't get me wrong I'll still take my rebate if they have it when I get my Model 3. I figure I've earned it based on how much taxes I pay, and the fact that only a fool passes on free money. But I wouldn't cry if they stopped this bribery which has proven incredibly ineffective.

The guy pays for 150K car also pays HST, and definitely pays more income tax than us who can only afford Model 3. I still think direct them to buy EV rather than gas hungry ICE is a better choice (count how many gas emissions could produce with car in that price range). In the end , HST minus rebates, our government still positive.

Having said that, the change for rebate program is good for ppl like me who holds a model 3 reservation. Tesla will 1. Move the delivery date in Ontario forward to balance the sudden drop on their sales in Ontario 2. Make sure LR+AWD not exceed the 75K cap.

 

[realtycoon]

This is why carbon taxes etc are nothing more than politics and a government tax grab. If the purpose is to save the environment and to reduce emissions , than every EV sold is a good thing. But now we get Liberal BS, and politics that play into it. The new benefit directly benefits Toyota and GM with the exceptions. They really should either scrap the whole program or make it fair and in alignment with the goal of climate change

 

[realtycoon]

Nobody that can afford $150,000 for the car deserves a government handout. Better off paying people to get rid of their 20 year old cars, raising gas prices, etc. Yes, we all want to line our own pockets at others expense while claiming it's for the greater good but really it's selfish behavior that won't improve the situation. Don't get me wrong I'll still take my rebate if they have it when I get my Model 3. I figure I've earned it based on how much taxes I pay, and the fact that only a fool passes on free money. But I wouldn't cry if they stopped this bribery which has proven incredibly ineffective.

The person buying the expensive car has paid more than his fair share in taxes to make up for it.

 

[ZooSean]

This is why carbon taxes etc are nothing more than politics and a government tax grab. If the purpose is to save the environment and to reduce emissions , than every EV sold is a good thing. But now we get Liberal BS, and politics that play into it. The new benefit directly benefits Toyota and GM with the exceptions. They really should either scrap the whole program or make it fair and in alignment with the goal of climate change

No worries, they can not elimate the Model 3 from rebate list. I will see more ppl move to Tesla than less ppl.

 

[balzary]

The i8 was definitely on there yesterday. Also it looks like the Volvo XC90 T8 is still on there. I believe it starts in the $80k+ range.

I just had a look on the Volvo site, perhaps this gives some insight into how Tesla can handle the pricing. It looks like the Volvo is acceptable as there is 3 trim options, "Momentum, R-Design and Inscription" the MSRP of the highest trim which is what it looks like the government is basing it off is $69,550 and then you choose which powertrain you want, but as the lowest price for that trim is below the limit it counts I guess even though you can't get it as the e-vehicle at that cost.

So perhaps this is why it is showing SR & LR for AWD. I'm wondering if they are going to offer it like that, there is the SR trim and the LR trim with the powertrain being the option you can choose?

That's the only way I can figure that the Volvo is still on there.. and looking at the past program when tesla was on there and how tesla's site list the S for example when they had the multiple battery levels it was like having separate trims and that's what the government recognised them as.

I'm really thinking (hoping) that this will be how they do it.

 

[Tony_YYZ]

I just had a look on the Volvo site, perhaps this gives some insight into how Tesla can handle the pricing. It looks like the Volvo is acceptable as there is 3 trim options, "Momentum, R-Design and Inscription" the MSRP of the highest trim which is what it looks like the government is basing it off is $69,550 and then you choose which powertrain you want, but as the lowest price for that trim is below the limit it counts I guess even though you can't get it as the e-vehicle at that cost.

So perhaps this is why it is showing SR & LR for AWD. I'm wondering if they are going to offer it like that, there is the SR trim and the LR trim with the powertrain being the option you can choose?

That's the only way I can figure that the Volvo is still on there..

The only XC90 that qualifies are the hybrid models with the T8 engine in it. The T8 Momentum starts at $88,xxx.

 

[balzary]

The only XC90 that qualifies are the hybrid models with the T8 engine in it. The T8 Momentum starts at $88,xxx.

Yes see my above edit, it's making no sense as the Porsche is on there.... it's like it was deliberate to remove Tesla only.

Edit to add, I'm sorry I forgot to go back to the new list.... doh only Volvo is on there

 

[Struja]

Nobody that can afford $150,000 for the car deserves a government handout. Better off paying people to get rid of their 20 year old cars, raising gas prices, etc. Yes, we all want to line our own pockets at others expense while claiming it's for the greater good but really it's selfish behavior that won't improve the situation. Don't get me wrong I'll still take my rebate if they have it when I get my Model 3. I figure I've earned it based on how much taxes I pay, and the fact that only a fool passes on free money. But I wouldn't cry if they stopped this bribery which has proven incredibly ineffective.

I think you are partly right although for me personally when I first went to buy my Tesla the rebate was just reduced from $8,500 to $3,000 and it was part of the reason I backed out. When the 14k rebate came into play, I bought.

Keep in mind, for those of us who needed a car where range was an important factor, the S was the logical choice.

I think there are probably more effective means of promoting green technologies, but if the goal is less emissions and less reliance on fossil fuels, the debate shouldn’t entail financial status as a means of establishing policy. The goal should be what gets you the best environmental impact for your buck.

 

[ZooSean]

I just had a look on the Volvo site, perhaps this gives some insight into how Tesla can handle the pricing. It looks like the Volvo is acceptable as there is 3 trim options, "Momentum, R-Design and Inscription" the MSRP of the highest trim which is what it looks like the government is basing it off is $69,550 and then you choose which powertrain you want, but as the lowest price for that trim is below the limit it counts I guess even though you can't get it as the e-vehicle at that cost.

So perhaps this is why it is showing SR & LR for AWD. I'm wondering if they are going to offer it like that, there is the SR trim and the LR trim with the powertrain being the option you can choose?

That's the only way I can figure that the Volvo is still on there.. and looking at the past program when tesla was on there and how tesla's site list the S for example when they had the multiple battery levels it was like having separate trims and that's what the government recognised them as.

I'm really thinking (hoping) that this will be how they do it.

I did not see a way Tesla could price S or X below 75K . One thing I would do is starting selling 60 (without D even), 60 without D could prices below 75K , and they can software upgrade to 75D after delivery.

 

[Nikkin]

I did not see a way Tesla could price S or X below 75K . One thing I would do is starting selling 60 (without D even), 60 without D could prices below 75K , and they can software upgrade to 75D after delivery.

Yah all that is going to do is get all Tesla's banned from the rebate. This sort of skirting of the rules is exactly the kind of crap that the opposition party will use to get the entire EV rebate program scrapped.

They made a decision to ban all EVs over 75K msrp because not only Tesla, but Audi, Jaguar, Mercedes and Volvo will have $70K+ MSRP models and they wouldn't be able to explain to the Ontario public why exactly they were subsidising people who could afford a $70K+ car.

Best to accept it, if you can't afford an S or an X the 3 seems like it will still qualify.

 

[ZooSean]

Yah all that is going to do is get all Tesla's banned from the rebate. This sort of skirting of the rules is exactly the kind of crap that the opposition party will use to get the entire EV rebate program scrapped.

They made a decision to ban all EVs over 75K msrp because not only Tesla, but Audi, Jaguar, Mercedes and Volvo will have $70K+ MSRP models and they wouldn't be able to explain to the Ontario public why exactly they were subsidising people who could afford a $70K+ car.

Best to accept it, if you can't afford an S or an X the 3 seems like it will still qualify.

I am saying that is because Tesla did similar thing in Germany to get the rebate.

BTW, I never could afford an S X . But I still believe taking away rebate from S and X is not good choice. At the same time, personally I will enjoy my Model 3 come earlier with this rebate change.

 

[Nikkin]

The person buying the expensive car has paid more than his fair share in taxes to make up for it.

Not necessarily, there's lots of ways people with businesses can skirt the taxes they owe. That being said-- any incentive you can get is great so maybe they can still take advantage of subsidies on home charging installation.

 

[balzary]

The whole program makes no sense when you look at it more. A Chrysler pacifica which gets 53km on battery qualifies for the full amount whereas the i3 which can go 183km doesn't... and the BMW X5 which is 74,950 does qualify for $7000 and gets a measly 23km..

 

[Tony_YYZ]

Tesla's configurator needs to be updated still. It's still showing the $14k rebate and being applicable.

 

[Lon12]

I'm sorry to hear about this change in Ontario. The existing program looked like it was clearly working. Ontario's numbers were the best of any province. "Ontario EV sales more than doubled in 2017, with year-over-year growth hitting 120%".