Tesla replacing ultrasonic sensors with Tesla Vision

[texas_star_TM3]

Apple is using it for face scanning and 3D object scanning. That requires a lot more accuracy than regular driving requires.

that would come handy when parking....

 

[DarkForest]

Here's a better question. How often does the average person use their phone to measure distance? I remember doing it once.

Every single time my camera focuses. There are also other times it gets used without anyone realizing it.

 

[DarkForest]

i would argue that a crucial feature like "park assist" (standard on most cars...) cannot simply be removed - pardon "coming soon" - without allowing the buyer to cancel the purchase...

Imagine upgrading from a $20k car to a $70k car only to lose USS

 

[snorp]

I read the order agreement and it does not contain language that could be absolutely interpreted one way or another regarding my situation. By design I'm sure.

I sent a polite email to [email protected] stating my complaint and desired outcome, which is just an order fee refund. If it works then great, if not then I'm not going to worry about it any further.

I am very surprised that they would remove this functionality prior to having the vision solution ready to take its place. They didn't discontinue radar until vision was at least partially capable of replacing it. I would have been fine with reduced functionality, but not complete loss of functionality for an unknown period of time.

 

[rowdy]

this would seem like a big change and Im not really sure how the camera’s would even work. If the Tesla had a front bumper mounted camera and offered 360 degree views, then maybe. I generally give Elon the benefit of the doubt, but these seems crazy.

It does seem crazy giving the blind spots. So the alternative is that they are removing USS because new sensors are being added and they may be better for parking.

We've just seen a new higher resolution radar appear in the parts catalog.

So it seems new sensors/HW4 are imminent.

 

[Adalexym]

I have read this in a couple of places;

After cutting radar, Tesla now dropping ultrasonic sensors from its EVs

Most automakers use multiple redundant sensors. Tesla thinks otherwise.

arstechnica.com

this would seem like a big change and Im not really sure how the camera’s would even work. If the Tesla had a front bumper mounted camera and offered 360 degree views, then maybe. I generally give Elon the benefit of the doubt, but these seems crazy.

This sucks

 

[rowdy]

Sure we might lose USS but perhaps it's being replaced with better sensors. A new radar has appeared in the parts catalog so it seems a change is underway. Maybe it'll work out better for parking.

Not worth scrambling for a USS car if new sensors/HW4 are imminent.

 

[stopcrazypp]

that would come handy when parking....

The resolution necessary for parking is much lower than what Apple is trying to do (they are trying to create a whole AR environment). The ultrasonic sensors that people are handwringing about are much lower resolution for example.

And checking the detail, the faceid they use actually is based all on infrared cameras with dot projectors (not lidar) so things that can be accomplished by camera is still a lot more than most people realize.

I don't think cameras are really an issue, it's the mounting of them (Tesla doesn't have any low mounted cameras in the front). If they have a full parking camera setup like a lot of other cars, it'll actually be superior to the ultrasonic sensors in my book.

 

[VT_EE]

Tesla just called saying I've been assigned a VIN for a vehicle with no parking sensors. I kindly asked for a car with parking sensors and was told no. The rep went on this long diatribe about how vision is the future and sensors are no longer needed in Teslas.

I asked if I could cancel my order and receive a refund and was told no. I asked about bait and switch and the rep told me that since parking sensors aren't selectable on the configuration page, that Tesla has the right, as per the order agreement, to change anything (not selectable on the configuration page) that they like prior to delivery. I said that I would like to have an attorney review the document to determine if that was true, at which point he quickly got off the phone and texted me to contact [email protected] if I wanted to pursue legal action. He also texted that they would remove the vin and cancel the order, neither of which I asked for them to do. I texted back to please not do that but no response.

I'll probably cancel and eat the $250. My golf cart parks behind my M3 and I have to get super snug to the wall for everything to fit. I use the sensors every day for this. I don't need a new M3.

I love the products and hate the company.

Totally arrogant sales rep. They should absolutely refund the deposit given the scope of this change. Any company with decent customer service wouldn't think twice about providing the refund.

 

[Durzel]

I read the order agreement and it does not contain language that could be absolutely interpreted one way or another regarding my situation. By design I'm sure.

I sent a polite email to [email protected] stating my complaint and desired outcome, which is just an order fee refund. If it works then great, if not then I'm not going to worry about it any further.

I am very surprised that they would remove this functionality prior to having the vision solution ready to take its place. They didn't discontinue radar until vision was at least partially capable of replacing it. I would have been fine with reduced functionality, but not complete loss of functionality for an unknown period of time.

With respect I don’t know why you’d be surprised, they have form for it.

They removed (and recently disabled) Radar, launching Vision with diminished or disabled features, adding them back slowly. Tesla Vision still doesn’t do follow distance 1 or 90mph AP, and it may never do - perhaps not until HW4 and/or the return of the high resolution radar.

Tesla’s attitude with this stuff seems to be that customers ought to be the ones to suck it up for prematurely depreciated technology. It saves them money, they can preach that it’s all part of their vision, but in the meantime customers who have paid full price for their cars are the ones that suffer.

Some people have drawn the comparison to Apple removing the headphone jack. Certainly that would have been annoying for some people, but they had the good grace to do it long after Bluetooth headsets came out. That is different to this, I think.

I’m pretty sick of Tesla removing functionality under the guise of progress when really it’s all about opportunistic value engineering off the back of parts shortages in the short term. I’d like a fanatic to explain to me how deleting passenger lumbar and making the USB ports power only is a genuine, customer-driven change. How big do their margins need to be? Has it gone too far when customers are the ones paying the price with degraded experiences?

 

[eli_]

Yeah I would always go for the newer car, while it may seem like you are losing things, often they bundle many changes together at once, i.e. so there could be improvements that are unknown in the USS-less models. At the very least the bumpers will look cleaner.

 

[strider]

Tesla just called saying I've been assigned a VIN for a vehicle with no parking sensors. I kindly asked for a car with parking sensors and was told no. The rep went on this long diatribe about how vision is the future and sensors are no longer needed in Teslas.

I asked if I could cancel my order and receive a refund and was told no. I asked about bait and switch and the rep told me that since parking sensors aren't selectable on the configuration page, that Tesla has the right, as per the order agreement, to change anything (not selectable on the configuration page) that they like prior to delivery. I said that I would like to have an attorney review the document to determine if that was true, at which point he quickly got off the phone and texted me to contact [email protected] if I wanted to pursue legal action. He also texted that they would remove the vin and cancel the order, neither of which I asked for them to do. I texted back to please not do that but no response.

I'll probably cancel and eat the $250. My golf cart parks behind my M3 and I have to get super snug to the wall for everything to fit. I use the sensors every day for this. I don't need a new M3.

I love the products and hate the company.

Well, if it makes you feel any better, they will end up disabling the sensors on the existing cars as they have with RADAR. The only consolation is that the Ioniq 6 is looking like a really strong M3 competitor for LR and the BMW i4 for the Performance. Options are coming.

 

[loquitur]

Lol what did you expect the outcome would be? As if you’re going to pay an attorney hundreds or thousands of dollars over parking sensors

Add to that manufacturers usually have a "specifications subject to change without notice" clause
in their docs ... not usually worth a fight but I like the idea of having the credit card company do
the work to try for a refund.

Back to ultrasonic sensors, I park in a tight-clearance apartment garage with lots of obstacles.
Summon will (usually) back the car out, but won't drive in, so I'm used to that part, and hearing the
nattering/chirping of whatever is pleading me to stop will be a blessing.

(Aside: many of us in this real-life situation have a "hanging tennis ball system" for stoppage,
not even trusting our own vision. Can the neural net for wipers be also trained to stop at the
tennis ball contact?)

Lastly about ultrasonics, I always (falsely?) assumed they were used for tight situations with
highway "Jersey barriers". When I first used FSD I thought that USS surely must be used to hold
the line, especially with lack of radar, or without even a painted yellow line next to the concrete.
Sometimes, there are bulges in the barriers in tense places like going into a tunnel where it's dark
in daylight, so a Kalman filter for smoothing won't quite work there.
It took me quite a while to trust AP to skirt it all within inches, assuming that it was ultrasound work.

 

[oholladay]

Has anyone taken delivery of an MY or M3 in the past few days? Would be interesting to know if there is any new hardware in them to address the lack of USS. I know Tesla was looking at hi-res radar at some point.

 

[Individoo]

It may take couple of weeks for cars with no ultrasonic sensors to be delivered. They have to be manufactured in such configuration and then delivered to customers. I think similarly to new features like door trim, etc next we will see a mix of cars with or without sensors being delivered. They have to start making bumpers differently, at least stop cutting holes in them.
I'm not trying to say that lack of sensors is a new feature though

 

[Mark II]

It may take couple of weeks for cars with no ultrasonic sensors to be delivered. They have to be manufactured in such configuration and then delivered to customers. I think similarly to new features like door trim, etc next we will see a mix of cars with or without sensors being delivered. They have to start making bumpers differently, at least stop cutting holes in them.
I'm not trying to say that lack of sensors is a new feature though

If someone has already been assigned a VIN then typically delivery is just a few days away. At least in my experience.

 

[oholladay]

It may take couple of weeks for cars with no ultrasonic sensors to be delivered. They have to be manufactured in such configuration and then delivered to customers. I think similarly to new features like door trim, etc next we will see a mix of cars with or without sensors being delivered. They have to start making bumpers differently, at least stop cutting holes in them.
I'm not trying to say that lack of sensors is a new feature though

Looks like they’re already going out.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1578194705078099969

 

[Mardak]

There's some up-close photos from a few days ago:

Tesla removes ultrasonic sensors from new Model 3/Y builds, soon Model S/X [Update]

After removing radar from their vehicles over the last year in a shift to their camera-based Autopilot system known as Tesla Vision, Tesla is now also removing ultrasonic sensors from new Model 3 and Model […]

driveteslacanada.ca

People asking for Autopilot to be smooth? Both software and hardware now!

 

[Jjrss]

I have read this in a couple of places;

After cutting radar, Tesla now dropping ultrasonic sensors from its EVs

Most automakers use multiple redundant sensors. Tesla thinks otherwise.

arstechnica.com

this would seem like a big change and Im not really sure how the camera’s would even work. If the Tesla had a front bumper mounted camera and offered 360 degree views, then maybe. I generally give Elon the benefit of the doubt, but these seems crazy.

From what I've seen, the 360 view is patented technology which Tesla "could" license, but chose not to. They are trying to come up with a less effective perception 3D map grey scale equivalent. Camers would try to perceive the space you are going towards and predict how far you've entered it... what could possibly go wrong without a redundant non-vision sensor.

I'm sure the one camera on the side watching a blinding white box truck encroahing into your lane will be 100% accurate 500% of the time! Hurray for insurance

 

[oholladay]

There's some up-close photos from a few days ago:

Tesla removes ultrasonic sensors from new Model 3/Y builds, soon Model S/X [Update]

After removing radar from their vehicles over the last year in a shift to their camera-based Autopilot system known as Tesla Vision, Tesla is now also removing ultrasonic sensors from new Model 3 and Model […]

driveteslacanada.ca

People asking for Autopilot to be smooth? Both software and hardware now!

I suspect additional hardware (like hi res radar) would be behind the bumper. The prior radar wasn’t visible and there was no cut out for it.