Tesla replacing ultrasonic sensors with Tesla Vision

[stopcrazypp]

It may take couple of weeks for cars with no ultrasonic sensors to be delivered. They have to be manufactured in such configuration and then delivered to customers. I think similarly to new features like door trim, etc next we will see a mix of cars with or without sensors being delivered. They have to start making bumpers differently, at least stop cutting holes in them.
I'm not trying to say that lack of sensors is a new feature though

With the announcement, cars would pretty much immediately be leaving the factory with no sensors. The announcement says early October and it's already early October. Tesla would have been planning this for weeks if not months given this isn't exactly a change they can do on the fly (they need new bumpers without the holes or at least covers).

 

[_Redshift_]

From what I've seen, the 360 view is patented technology which Tesla "could" license, but chose not to. They are trying to come up with a less effective perception 3D map grey scale equivalent. Camers would try to perceive the space you are going towards and predict how far you've entered it... what could possibly go wrong without a redundant non-vision sensor.

I'm sure the one camera on the side watching a blinding white box truck encroahing into your lane will be 100% accurate 500% of the time! Hurray for insurance

The last part of that article states:

”Tesla says that its systems will improve in performance over time and that Models 3 and Y that arrive without the ultrasonic sensors will not be capable of parking assist, autopark, summon, or smart summon. Tesla claims that these functions will be restored once its vision-only system has achieved parity with the old ultrasonic sensors.”

So these features were removed first, while waiting for backup systems to become better.

Definitely sounds like either supply chain issues, or cost cutting or a combination of both.

Another home run for Tesla.

 

[Boza]

Wondering when they will cripple the cars with existing sensors - like they did with the radar.

 

[DrGriz]

Wondering when they will cripple the cars with existing sensors - like they did with the radar.

Possibly next year. They certainly left the door open for that and my gut tells me they will. That said, I also think they are going to have the ability to approximate (maybe not exactly) the experience created with US with vision only.

For myself, none of my other vehicles have US sensors and I don't worry about parking them in my small garage. I know how to do it and yes, I have tennis balls but I only put them up a month ago so we wouldn't hit the E bikes in the summer which we never have done. This makes it easier.

YMMV. If this is a deal killer for others then they should definitely look elsewhere and sell their cars to people who can handle the situation. Bless em.

 

[Seminole]

The last part of that article states:

”Tesla says that its systems will improve in performance over time and that Models 3 and Y that arrive without the ultrasonic sensors will not be capable of parking assist, autopark, summon, or smart summon. Tesla claims that these functions will be restored once its vision-only system has achieved parity with the old ultrasonic sensors.”

So these features were removed first, while waiting for backup systems to become better.

Definitely sounds like either supply chain issues, or cost cutting or a combination of both.

Another home run for Tesla.

Just like how we have all the Robo taxis Elon promised 2 years ago, or a fully fleshed out FSD, or any number of broken promises

Tesla is already way behind the competition on these types of safety systems as Teslas have no cross traffic alert, no reverse auto emergency braking, no real blind spot monitoring system (Teslas excuse for a system is garbage), no 360 degree cameras, auto wipers that use a rain sensor and actually work, plus another few things I’m sure I’m missing. Those are things a Nissan or Kia in the mid 20k range has. But hey our cars can fart right?

I’m going to get extremely pissed off if they disable our existing ultrasonic sensors down the road like they did with the radar as I use them every single day when parking in my garage.

 

[DarkForest]

Yeah I would always go for the newer car, while it may seem like you are losing things, often they bundle many changes together at once, i.e. so there could be improvements that are unknown in the USS-less models. At the very least the bumpers will look cleaner.

I’m in that sweet spot where I got a Model 3 without radar and without MCU 3/Lithium 12v. There are definitely unlucky times to get a Tesla.

Thankfully I do have CCS charging support cause otherwise that would have been another oof. I know some didn’t. And I guess the playing field was slightly leveled when they disabled everyone’s radar.

If someone has already been assigned a VIN then typically delivery is just a few days away. At least in my experience.

Typically… my Model 3 got delivered 24 days after getting a VIN, and I had done everything right. It just took longer in my case for some reason.

 

[Tha_Ape]

And what about when your camera is blocked? I get those warnings at least once a day. I was so bummed when I realized that they de-activated my radar.

Yea, radar, at a minimum, should have remained active for edge cases... ie front cameras blocked/blinded.

I've held off on updating. Likely will be forced into it in some future unrelated recall. Disabling radar should have been an opt in like it was when I bought the car and like it was for FSD Beta users without risk of voiding a warranty

 

[rwiegand]

Having driven for about 60 years now without the benefit of cameras, radar, and ultrasonic sensors I can testify that one can drive and park cars quite safely, without running into curbs, poles, walls, or other cars without benefit of these devices. Nice to have, sure, but no replacement for using your own eyes to know where the car is in space.

I'm hoping that some day soon the technology will become as good or better than a human. It clearly isn't there yet and this seems like the time for different groups to explore diverse alternate approaches to solving the problem. Tesla is focusing on vision only, not a choice I might have made, but I expect they will really push the boundaries of what can be done with cameras as a result. Others, using a radar/lidar model will push the boundaries in other directions. Many will choose hybrid models. Very hopeful that one or more winning strategies will emerge in the next ten years. Meanwhile we get to pay to be the alpha testers ;-) (Not like this comes as a surprise, I trust we all knew what we were signing up for when buying a Tesla. Lots of other manufacturers offer a more traditional approach and less interesting cars as a result.)

 

[Level 1]

Having driven for about 60 years now without the benefit of cameras, radar, and ultrasonic sensors I can testify that one can drive and park cars quite safely, without running into curbs, poles, walls, or other cars without benefit of these devices.

Kudos for being a safe driver, but as the saying goes, safety regulations are written in blood. The widespread prevalence of children being injured/killed in simple driveway accidents is why backup cameras became legally mandatory - it provides coverage for blind spots you couldn't have otherwise seen into REGARDLESS of how safe of a driver you might be.

Ultrasonic sensors provide valuable information to the driver, some of which can be replaced with vision-based stand-in. But there are known holes in the vision coverage (obstructed cross-traffic, view over the front hood, etc) - which may not be solvable with object permanence algorithms. Overall, I think removal of the sensors is a net loss - but I'm happy to see that Tesla is moving forward with porting FSD-derived improvements into the non-FSD software stack - something which may bring enough other improvements to be worth the tradeoff.

 

[dramsey]

Apple is using it for face scanning and 3D object scanning. That requires a lot more accuracy than regular driving requires.

Actually, no. Apple’s face scanning features projects an array of infrared dots on your face and uses the camera to detect deviations from a perfect rectilinear grid (this is how it works in complete darkness.)

Apple’s object scanning uses an actual separate LIDAR scanner.

Neither feature is purely optical.

 

[Dilly]

The 2029 Tesla Model T:
As standard, it’s available only in black and goes forwards and backwards.
But for $1000 per month for premium connectivity…

 

[Mardak]

FSD Beta switched to Tesla Vision for highway driving even for vehicles with radar for early access testing well before deploying that to production. I wonder if Tesla will do that for testing out Vision Park Assist with FSD Beta? Could be as soon as 10.69.3 this month or as part of single stack FSD Beta 11 next month?

 

[djec65fb]

The 2029 Tesla Model T:
As standard, it’s available only in black and goes forwards and backwards.
But for $1000 per month for premium connectivity…

It'll have wind down windows, manual seats, no steering wheel/pedals, a 65" screen in place of the windshield and FSD will still be in beta.

 

[Durzel]

Possibly next year. They certainly left the door open for that and my gut tells me they will. That said, I also think they are going to have the ability to approximate (maybe not exactly) the experience created with US with vision only.

For myself, none of my other vehicles have US sensors and I don't worry about parking them in my small garage. I know how to do it and yes, I have tennis balls but I only put them up a month ago so we wouldn't hit the E bikes in the summer which we never have done. This makes it easier.

YMMV. If this is a deal killer for others then they should definitely look elsewhere and sell their cars to people who can handle the situation. Bless em.

I would like to think that they have no incentive to disable them on cars that have them fitted.

Ultrasonics can't interfere with Autopilot or Tesla Vision, since they are ineffective beyond parking speeds and only have a range of ~2-3 metres.

Since these sensors are an off the shelf thing (which Tesla seems to hate - good old vertical integration) there is a good possibility the software side of things was fully realised, with no changes or further development needed, shortly after they decided to fit them however many years ago.

The only reason they'd have to disable them on older cars I would say would be hubris about how effective they feel like Tesla Vision is (or will be at some distant point in the future). So.... perhaps there's a 50/50 chance.

 

[JulienW]

The 2029 Tesla Model T:
As standard, it’s available only in black and goes forwards and backwards.
But for $1000 per month for premium connectivity…

....but do you have to hand crank generator charge it? At least you won't have to buy the now optional charging cable.

 

[RMannino]

Where did the rear cross traffic alert upgrade go and how does that fit in?
That feature saved me many times backing out of parking spots with my 2018 Nissan Rogue Sport
and all new vehicles come standard with that.

 

[LorentzTorque]

....but do you have to hand crank generator charge it? At least you won't have to buy the now optional charging cable.

View attachment 861105

You won't need to charge it if it has sails.

 

[DrGriz]

I would like to think that they have no incentive to disable them on cars that have them fitted.

Ultrasonics can't interfere with Autopilot or Tesla Vision, since they are ineffective beyond parking speeds and only have a range of ~2-3 metres.

Since these sensors are an off the shelf thing (which Tesla seems to hate - good old vertical integration) there is a good possibility the software side of things was fully realised, with no changes or further development needed, shortly after they decided to fit them however many years ago.

The only reason they'd have to disable them on older cars I would say would be hubris about how effective they feel like Tesla Vision is (or will be at some distant point in the future). So.... perhaps there's a 50/50 chance.

Well, I hope you are right. They might also disable them to streamline the software, however I think your hubris reasoning is exactly why they will. We will see.

 

[MP3Mike]

Where did the rear cross traffic alert upgrade go and how does that fit in?

That has never been a feature, and I haven't heard anything about them adding it.

and all new vehicles come standard with that.

That certainly isn't true.

 

[_Redshift_]

I’m in that sweet spot where I got a Model 3 without radar and without MCU 3/Lithium 12v. There are definitely unlucky times to get a Tesla.

Thankfully I do have CCS charging support cause otherwise that would have been another oof. I know some didn’t. And I guess the playing field was slightly leveled when they disabled everyone’s radar.

Typically… my Model 3 got delivered 24 days after getting a VIN, and I had done everything right. It just took longer in my case for some reason.

I’m not sure my Sept 2018 build Model 3’s radar is disabled.
I still have the one car follow distance available, and the two cars in front of me are still visualized.

I am on HW 2.5, and some comments here seem to suggest HW2.5 cannot do vision only, so they had to retain the radar functionality for those.

If so, I guess I’m one of the luckiest. I paid $5K for EAP. Don’t need FSD. 4 years after buying my car, I still think I’d have hated paying more for FSD.