Interesting - quite widespread issue, indeed. But I did not see anyone removing the sensors from the existing fleet, which, arguably, Tesla will soon do (as they did with the radar).
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Tesla replacing ultrasonic sensors with Tesla Vision
- Thread starter diplomat33
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And when Tesla says “will be coming”? Don’t expect it to be imminent. It’s been about a year since Elon promised yoke horn activation via airbag by over the air update..and here we are still..no update
smogne41
Active Member
Absolutely. I was trying to be diplomatic. I expect it to 1) take at least 6 months, and 2) never be quite as good as the old system.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
I've also not seen anyone, most significantly Tesla, say that this is the reason they are removing the sensors. In fact they very specifically did not mention it. This seems to be more of an apologist excuse than an actual reason.
Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision | Tesla Support
Safety is at the core of our design and engineering decisions. In 2021, we began our transition to Tesla Vision by removing radar from Model 3 and Model Y, followed by Model S and Model X in 2022. Today, in most regions around the globe, these vehicles now rely on Tesla Vision, our camera-based...
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
They specifically say they have no plans to do so.
And they won’t. There’s zero benefit to them by doing so. Does not help them with software or make anything simpler or allow a single software version or anything like that.
It’s just of no benefit to Tesla.
smogne41
Active Member
It would mean they no longer need to support them in software, and also would remove the embarrassing situation of having the old cars (probably) work better than the newer ones. Very high probability they do this in the next 12 months.
There are a lot of fleet vehicles that don't have cameras but do have ultrasonic sensors. I just don't see this happening, they'll need to support USS indefinitely in software because of those cars, so why not include it for all?
Additionally, Model X depends on the in-door sensor and roof sensor to determine how the falcon wing door articulates and how high it goes.
There's been people needing service for "Ultrasonic sensors not communicating" related issues with service charging $190 in 2020 and $500 in 2022. If ultrasonic sensors are really better than Tesla Vision, Tesla could potentially even support a hybrid mode where Vision measurements can be swapped in for the problematic ultrasonic sensor to avoid needing to service and replace the parts.
If Tesla Vision is more accurate and allows for better functionality, e.g., smarter visualizations and behaviors, then most likely there will be people wanting the new software even if the vehicle already has ultrasonic sensors.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Exactly.
But none of this requires new software. Just turn on/off.
So should be fine. They have no plans to remove the support in any case.
This does not require any extra work of any significance on their part.
They have no plans to remove support, and have explicitly said so.
This means it is of minimal consequence to them at the moment, as is evident; it’s just not any work, other than to implement an enable/disable switch. The hard part is getting the new stuff to work!
Often times teslas vision today, will attempt to auto select drive/forward even when there is an obvious car/truck/wall DIRECTLY in front of me in broad daylight.
Not sure how anyone expects it to suddenly get so much better than USS in detecting say, curbs or things low and small and just a few feet from the front bumper. If it even happens.
I suspect it will be quite awhile before that functionality comes back. Or perhaps it will return the same time as the promised “360 Birds Eye view” Elon also promised years ago
Not sure how anyone expects it to suddenly get so much better than USS in detecting say, curbs or things low and small and just a few feet from the front bumper. If it even happens.
I suspect it will be quite awhile before that functionality comes back. Or perhaps it will return the same time as the promised “360 Birds Eye view” Elon also promised years ago
Tesla has significant benefit from removing USS from the existing fleet:
- Remove the USS code, which will reduce software maintenance cost
- Stop supporting the hardware itself. It will not need to maintain stock of USS and will not need to support warranty USS service
- Simplify service-related work (no need to include USS in the troubleshooting manuals)
As we saw with the radar, they are quite eager to realize such cost reduction opportunities - 6 months to start disabling in the existing fleet.
- Remove the USS code, which will reduce software maintenance cost
- Stop supporting the hardware itself. It will not need to maintain stock of USS and will not need to support warranty USS service
- Simplify service-related work (no need to include USS in the troubleshooting manuals)
As we saw with the radar, they are quite eager to realize such cost reduction opportunities - 6 months to start disabling in the existing fleet.
dbldwn02
Active Member
You're joking right? I didn't see a sarcasm note, so I'm just checking.
If the USS support is removed then there is no need to replace faulty USS sensors. If you have a faulty USS sensor then they will simply upgrade to the latest firmware. Which means that they do not need to maintain an inventory of USS (less warehouse space, less inventory, fewer vendors).
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
None of these three points will happen. Obviously on new vehicles this will be realized (except for point 1 since the code will still be there presumably). Perhaps you were not talking about what applies to older vehicles?
I'm all for dropping sensors it if they can reproduce existing behavior with USS. But I just don't see how they can detect objects just in front of the bumper.
Imagine walking from behind the car, get into the car, then drive forward. How will it know if there is an object right in front of it?
I hope someone can prove me wrong.
Imagine walking from behind the car, get into the car, then drive forward. How will it know if there is an object right in front of it?
I hope someone can prove me wrong.
Imagine the cameras staying operational while the car is in park. The cameras might see an object approach the vehicle and move out of view in front of the camera. Unless that object comes back into view it must still be in front, or underneath, the car. Seems like a simple extension of sentry mode.
If the radar is any indicator, they will remove the USS sometime next year. We’ll see.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
If they advance the camera functionality so it matches the sensors first then I'd be fine with that. Disabling them before then would make no sense.
If radar is any indication, available functional parity is not a decision factor.
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