Imagine paying $130k and not have autopark
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Tesla replacing ultrasonic sensors with Tesla Vision
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Imagine paying $130k and not have autopark
Imagine paying anything and not getting what was advertised without being compensated for every month not available. Some people coming up to 1 qtr now.
let's hope it comes soon. and it has to come in the main branch . does this mean that the so called single stack needs to be released first ?
Perhaps someone with technical know how can explain this, but why the ambiguity with the USS as you described (“there is an object somewhere”). In medical USS, we’re able to generate 2d/3d/4d images with USS. Is the limitation the single transducer type used in cars?
The medical ones have multiple sensors that cross over at different angles to do 3d I think right ?
That is a good question that I’ve never thought about, but up thread people are quoting a couple of hundred dollars saved by not installing, what, 8 of these sensors (including wiring and labour)? I suspect the medical imagers are in a slightly different price bracket!
Yes. But begs the question whether this is a sensor issue and if a non-medical grade version would be doable. Challenge with vision is that depth perception is entirely dependent on at least two views of any object (hence why we need two eyes). Much of MV jingles on such a high performing image analysis that it can tear out all these calculations/differences. The human brain cannot accurately measure depth to the level of few inches (try to estimate the distance to an object across the table within 2-3 inches) so seems skeptical that the vehicle computer is more powerful.
It depends how accurate the sensors for movement is wheel rotation vs distance. Also different wheel sizes = different distances. So it might not even be useful enough. The next thing is of course inertial based navigation. But how accurate is that? And when do you know that you are really close to the wall in the front? You can see t he edge of the bumper in the backing camera given that it's clean, but still.
Definitely impacting BMW and Ford, and those are the only other car forums I’ve been following recently. People that ordered i4s and optioned park assist are facing huge delays in delivery, and Ford straight up pulled them from the Mach-e like Tesla did… the Mach-e even has a physical parking button that used to initiate park assist, but now it’s been repurposed to just open nav and search for public parking in the recently delivered ones
. Also keep in mind that most other manufacturers that offer it only offer it on their very top trim levels of some models, so they only need to source enough to put them in a small percentage of their cars. Tesla was putting them in every car they sold, so it likely would have been a much bigger problem for Tesla than for other companies, especially as fast as they have been expanding production.
While stereoscopic imaging can make ranging simpler, it is not strictly required. Humans with single eye vision can still drive and estimate distance to objects. Tesla performs ranging using single camera vision. Computers have precision advantages over humans when it comes to estimating distance.
It is similar to radar vs. phased radar array. The USS has only one transmitter/receiver, similar to a very primitive “eye spot” that can sense only the light intensity. It can measure only distance to the most reflective (usually closest) object within the field of view (I think Tesla uses the most common sensors with 120’ FOV). It cannot see anything beyond a few meters (signal attenuation/noise) or below 20-30 cm (not enough fidelity). That is perfectly fine for the parking use case.
Medical devices use array of sensors to form the picture. I am not sure but I also think they modulate the transmitter (amplitude + phase + frequency) to achieve depth. So, with the medical device you not only see that there is something at 1m from you but also a pretty good picture of what it is. That would be too much for the parking use case.
There is speculation that Tesla HD radar patent is more like the US medical devices - like a phased radar array - as opposed to the current radar, which is like the USS. If that is the case, the new radar will help them form a picture. Weymo uses lidars in a different way (strobes) but achieves the same result.
Chip shortage affected pretty much everyone. However, they dealt with that in a very, very different way. Audi, for example, gave you a transparent option: either get a car w/o the sensors (and appropriate discount) or wait for the sensors to be available. I think BMW did something similar.Definitely impacting BMW and Ford, and those are the only other car forums I’ve been following recently. People that ordered i4s and optioned park assist are facing huge delays in delivery, and Ford straight up pulled them from the Mach-e like Tesla did… the Mach-e even has a physical parking button that used to initiate park assist, but now it’s been repurposed to just open nav and search for public parking in the recently delivered ones
Also keep in mind that most other manufacturers that offer it only offer it on their very top trim levels of some models, so they only need to source enough to put them in a small percentage of their cars. Tesla was putting them in every car they sold, so it likely would have been a much bigger problem for Tesla than for other companies, especially as fast as they have been expanding production.
The biggest issue with Tesla is lack of transparency. That, combined with a practice of unfulfilled promises, destroys trust in the brand.
Imagine if they had a track record of delivering on time whatever they promised. We would probably not have this discussion - simply accept that TV will solve the problem and just wait for them to deliver it (on time).
I bought a Tesla without USS and felt Tesla was transparent. I was notified in the app before accepting the purchase agreement that my car wouldn’t have the sensors, but the missing features would be restored through Tesla Vision soon. I knew Tesla’s history and knew there was a risk it would take longer than “soon”, but I still chose to go through with the purchase. Of course I wish my car had the sensors, but as long as Tesla can roll out the missing features within a matter of months, I’ll be fine with it.
edit: By the way, one of the ways BMW dealt with it for people who ordered i4 eDrive40s was, after customers had already been waiting for many months for their order, BMW told them they were no longer offering the sensors on the eDrive40 trim, so they can either accept their order without them, or they can change their order to the much more expensive M50 trim and get back in line if they want the sensors. So, people either accepted without the feature or changed their order to the more expensive M50 trim, but to rub salt into the wound, BMW started offering the sensors again a few months later for new eDrive40 orders. So there were definitely some people that got screwed there.
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Yep, mentioned this upthread. There is a huge USS supply issue that affected all automakers, it's just that Tesla was drastically more affected since every single car had 12 of them (while for others it was optional and not always 12), plus Tesla sells a lot more units than any equivalent car in its segment. The $114 is largely irrelevant to Tesla, they would have lost a lot more money if the cars were delayed waiting for these.Definitely impacting BMW and Ford, and those are the only other car forums I’ve been following recently. People that ordered i4s and optioned park assist are facing huge delays in delivery, and Ford straight up pulled them from the Mach-e like Tesla did… the Mach-e even has a physical parking button that used to initiate park assist, but now it’s been repurposed to just open nav and search for public parking in the recently delivered ones
Also keep in mind that most other manufacturers that offer it only offer it on their very top trim levels of some models, so they only need to source enough to put them in a small percentage of their cars. Tesla was putting them in every car they sold, so it likely would have been a much bigger problem for Tesla than for other companies, especially as fast as they have been expanding production.
Tesla replacing ultrasonic sensors with Tesla Vision
Just saw this article, Model Y was the 6th best selling model in the US behind only the usual pickups (F-150, Silverado, Ram), RAV4, and Camry. This would not have been possible if Tesla was waiting around for USS. None of the other premium segment competitors are even close.
Tesla Model Y Was America's 6th Best-Selling Car Last Year
Medical imaging uses large phased arrays for sure. The simple single-sensors used in Tesla are only able to measure distance, just one number for the whole field of view, but this is perfect for parking. I hate to see them go.
The vehicle wouldn’t necessarily need to use wheel rotation or inertia to judge movement. The tv system classifies objects based on whether they have the potential to move, so it should be possible to assess the cars position in space based on how the static objects around it are moving.
If you went to sleep in one position in a room and woke up in another you wouldn’t be confused about what had happened or forget about objects you could no longer see because you have a persistent model of your environment in your head.
I live in Norway and we did not get any info at all. It seems the same in the United Kingdom also.
I really hope they do not use wheel rotation to measure distance. Wheel circumference is affected by many factors, aside from the wheel size you select in the UX.
The idea with static/dynamic objects is interesting but I am not sure if it is practical. There is a similar concept in navigation but we use predetermined static objects; the robot does not have to make that determination - just to orient itself towards them.
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