Tesla replacing ultrasonic sensors with Tesla Vision

[Mardak]

I think it's safe to assume that vision USS will be at least somewhat worse than using the actual sensors for a long time to come, if not forever

Mostly depends on Tesla's priorities, and if things line up to need more accurate proximity detection. For example, maybe Smart Park needs to pull into supercharger spots that have distance requirements for charging cables to be useful or Optimus needs to interact with things with inches of tolerance.

Maybe Tesla will even update the park assist visualization as Occupancy Network can provide a lot more detail than existing ultrasonic sensors.

 

[GalacticHero]

who knows. I assume there is someone on the AI team with a brain and has thought of potential problems.

They did . . . and were overruled by someone higher up.

 

[stopcrazypp]

A lot of what you’re referring to applies to still photography, not video. Dynamic exposure sensitivity introduces noise. Contrast does not make up for dynamic range. I saw a video just yesterday of AP almost slamming into a barrier because the high contrast video made it look like something it wasn’t. The enhanced night vision only works on still photography. I think it’s certainly possible for the front cameras to provide stereoscopic vision, but that doesn’t apply to the other cameras.

Note this is in incorrect, even for the cameras Tesla is using. The AR0132 sensors Tesla is using has hardware HDR functionality built in.

http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/308/AR0132AT-D-888230.pdf

It is not limited to stills photography because the hardware has multiframe HDR support built in (it can take different exposures back to back continuously, combine it into a 120 dB image all in hardware and output a video stream).

This in fact has been the case for a lot of image sensors given there are plenty of applications that call for HDR video (for example surveillance). There's other techniques like DOL-HDR and Quad bayer HDR that other sensors use to accomplish the same thing.

To be fair however, Tesla may not necessarily be using this mode, but it is there if they wanted to.

 

[texas_star_TM3]

"vision only" pretends that there is a giant semi-truck *right next to my car* every time I pull into the garage.
"vision only" also slams on the brakes when i drive on a curvy road and traffic comes from the opposite direction
.... but yeah... "vision only" will *definitely* be able to tell me +/- a few inches how far away I am from a wall

this is cost cutting/ making manufacturing easier by leaving out parts which are standard on cars costing less than half... meanwhile Tesla's don't even have rear cross traffic alerts either - something which is standard on a $30k Mazda

 

[heavyD]

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that an immediate cost cutting move involving Tesla's highest volume sellers comes at a time when Elon realized he's not going to be able to get out of the twitter deal.

 

[DarkForest]

I really hope they stick to not removing USS functionality from existing cars, would hate to have 12 useless sensors just sitting there.

They’re going to disable them next year.

I guarantee it.

Just like they did with radar.

what happens when the layout of things changes while the car is asleep, etc

Maybe they’ll do persistent sentry mode (full time), and that’s why they needed a better 12v battery.

I am not buying a car without rear corner radars for cross traffic alert

You don’t need cross traffic alerts if you always park backwards which is made easy with USS…

Wait….

Oh no!

Note this is in incorrect, even for the cameras Tesla is using. The AR0132 sensors Tesla is using has hardware HDR functionality built in.

http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/308/AR0132AT-D-888230.pdf

It is not limited to stills photography because the hardware has multiframe HDR support built in (it can take different exposures back to back continuously, combine it into a 120 dB image all in hardware and output a video stream).

This in fact has been the case for a lot of image sensors given there are plenty of applications that call for HDR video (for example surveillance). There's other techniques like DOL-HDR and Quad bayer HDR that other sensors use to accomplish the same thing.

To be fair however, Tesla may not necessarily be using this mode, but it is there if they wanted to.

Ok, yeah. Seems video HDR can be pretty legit. Thanks for the info!

To your last point, the video we get to see from the cameras doesn’t look that great, and I know they do all sorts of pre-processing before sending the camera feed to the NNs. I’m really curious what the feed looks like in the various stages.

 

[finman100]

dcx rocket - Google Search

so a prototype. got it.

 

[smogne41]

Maybe they’ll do persistent sentry mode (full time), and that’s why they needed a better 12v battery.

God I hope not. The phantom drain is already annoying (but manageable). This would basically make the car impossible to leave at an airport for a week or two, or even hard to leave unplugged for a long weekend if you arrive with lower SOC.

 

[momo3605]

They’re going to disable them next year.

I guarantee it.

Just like they did with radar.

Maybe they’ll do persistent sentry mode (full time), and that’s why they needed a better 12v battery.

You don’t need cross traffic alerts if you always park backwards which is made easy with USS…

Wait….

Oh no!

Ok, yeah. Seems video HDR can be pretty legit. Thanks for the info!

To your last point, the video we get to see from the cameras doesn’t look that great, and I know they do all sorts of pre-processing before sending the camera feed to the NNs. I’m really curious what the feed looks like in the various stages.

You don’t really sound like a shill anymore. Might want to update your signature haha

 

[Mark II]

Got it. Thanks. I was under the impression from Elon that birds eye view was on its way to our cars really soon since FSD Beta persons already have it per Elon

By Tinsae Aregay Sep 22 2021 - 3:29pm

Elon Musk Confirms ‘Vector-Space Birds Eye View’ Coming To All Tesla Vehicles Next Month​

Tesla has currently released the company's latest vector-space birds-eye view visualization to FSD Beta testers. However, Elon Musk now says the mind of the car visualization will be released to all Tesla vehicles, including ones in Europe, next month.

Ha! The so called "Vector-Space Birds Eye View" is not available on Model S with FSDb. Further more, according to my regular FSD visualization there is a massive truck in my garage that I may collide with. So I am not using that any time soon to help park.

 

[smogne41]

dcx rocket - Google Search

so a prototype. got it.

You did not exclude prototypes or suborbital rockets in your original post. Yes, SpaceX deserves tones of credit for successfully implementing this with F9, but it was not a new idea.

 

[finman100]

let's run with that/ yay!

 

[daktari]

Then you never would have even been considering a Tesla... As they have never had those features, and are not likely to add them in the future.

I have owned a 2017 S90D and a 21 3 LR D, so correct, no new Teslas for me with the offerings of today and near future sadly.

 

[mongo]

They’re going to disable them next year.

I guarantee it.

Just like they did with radar.

Completely different things.
Radar needed to work with and combine with vision.

USS can exist in their current form from a driver's informational point of view and be completely ignored by AP/FSD.

 

[Danzel]

Terrible decision by Elon seriously. I don’t even think the cameras would help me parked in my spot… Do you guys think it would work well with my parking spot?

 

[MP3Mike]

Terrible decision by Elon seriously. I don’t even think the cameras would help me parked in my spot… Do you guys think it would work well with my parking spot?

I don't see why they would have any problem with that. The repeater cameras can see the posts to line up, remember they are there, and just go straight back.

 

[eli_]

Terrible decision by Elon seriously. I don’t even think the cameras would help me parked in my spot… Do you guys think it would work well with my parking spot?

Sure why not? I'd sooner trust a bunch of blocky voxels from a neural network than bouncing sounds waves off of concrete (which in particular is a troublesome material for ultrasonics).

 

[Danzel]

Will i get the exact distance between the car and the yellow post? Only with cameras?

 

[Freedom]

the USS sensors on my 2022 Model 3 cant detect the parking wheel stops since IIRC the manual states it cant see below 5 inches. Maybe Tesla vision with memory, can detect it. Regardless, luckily, the model 3 has slightly more clearance than the wheel stops.

I'm not sure if they will delete USS functionality in the future, unless the vision based system becomes superior. It makes sense for radar due to the tech difference and waiting everyone to get the same AP experience/NN. USS seems to be an add on on top of vision. who knows.

 

[eli_]

Yeah I don't see why vision won't be able to see parking wheel stops. The driver can see them as they pull into a parking spot, and the car is way more accurate at counting wheel ticks than I am.