Tesla sales rep said MY with 4680 will NOT have longer range

[ZenRockGarden]

Sales Advisors know nothing about the future features of the cars. If you recall Battery Day, 4680 batteries is an advancement to 2170 batteries (obviously), their significant highlights was 5x Energy, +16% Range, and 6x Power. So as time goes on, we’ll see come to reality. There’s no way that the Model Y will be the same as 2170, certainty not in the future.

You're running a little too far with those stats. The 4680's have 5x energy because they're around 5 times the size of a 2170.

The 4680 pack is gonna have a lot fewer cells, each cell being larger and more powerful (and taking some structural load). There will be an overall weight savings which is what drives some of that 16% "range increase" - but again at battery day they were including the savings from the front and rear mega-casts in that number, and the current Y's already have the rear casting in place.

The single biggest thing the 4680 brings to Tesla is it's CHEAPER to manufacture. 5x fewer cells, 5x fewer connections, tons fewer framing parts because the pack is the frame instead of sitting inside a frame. And yes lighter is obviously better offering a path to longer range / better handling / etc.

 

[ub-chariot]

MYP with 4680 probably will have the same range as the current one at the beginning, which means the SA probably didn't lie about it.

BUT, that would also mean it will be lighter than the current MYP, given the 4680 cell has higher energy density. Lighter weight means faster acceleration and shorter stopping distance, and it also means the car is gonna be more agile than the current one. 4680 cell will also have longer life cycle and higher charging speed. These are the core metrics of batteries. And 4680 have major improvements in all these areas.

At this point, Tesla cannot tell you how good the 4680 really is until they switch all the MYLR/MYP to 4680.

 

[Msicario]

I just got notified that my new MY-P VIN has been assigned. Sales rep told me that my car has the new Ryzen chip plus all the other new stuff except for the 4680 battery. I live in SoCal so the car is coming out of Fremont. He proceeded to say that the 4680 battery will NOT offer longer range for my MY-P because that would simply "invalidate" all the existing MYs. It makes no sense for Tesla to do so. He explained that 4680 simply allows Tesla to be more efficient in manufacturing the batteries. They would just put FEWER batteries in the car to achieve similar range as before.

I'm currently stuck in deciding if I should postpone my delivery in hopes to get the 4680 battery. But if there's no benefit, then I don't need to wait.

While I understand the business decision to allow room to grow and potentially offer even longer range at a higher price point, can anyone confirm if this is in fact true?

I’m also in California waiting for my MYP, and after doing lots of thinking about the different batteries… I really don’t care what I get; Just looking forward to driving it and enjoying every mile; I can’t wait to get on it and kick some but on the streets

 

[sammyfan711]

Even if it is the same range the key thing with the 4680 is the million mile battery. Compared to the 2170 batteries being designed to reach 500k miles.

Another factor would be the charge rate, 4680 cells are speculated to allow for higher charge rates.

 

[ZenRockGarden]

Even if it is the same range the key thing with the 4680 is the million mile battery. Compared to the 2170 batteries being designed to reach 500k miles.

Another factor would be the charge rate, 4680 cells are speculated to allow for higher charge rates.

I do love the sound of "million mile battery". That said, the latest 2170 cells are probably quarter-million-mile which is gonna rival the durability of the entire rest of the car... I suppose we can envision 4680 packs having the car replaced around them (ironic opposite of usual concept of needing to replace the pack in the car) but I continue to preach that 4680 is really about manufacturing efficiency - 5 times fewer cells to make per car.

 

[ucmndd]

“Million mile” is a chemistry thing and has little if anything to do with packaging. There’s no reason to think that any chemistry improvements in the 4680s aren’t already in the 2170s.

 

[Msicario]

I do love the sound of "million mile battery". That said, the latest 2170 cells are probably quarter-million-mile which is gonna rival the durability of the entire rest of the car... I suppose we can envision 4680 packs having the car replaced around them (ironic opposite of usual concept of needing to replace the pack in the car) but I continue to preach that 4680 is really about manufacturing efficiency - 5 times fewer cells to make per car.

Agree and don’t forget they are much cheaper to produce and that in itself is what the Tesla shareholders want; More profit.
I also believe the 4680 is exactly what Tesla needed to manufacture the $28K economy car.

 

[advocate8]

I do love the sound of "million mile battery". That said, the latest 2170 cells are probably quarter-million-mile which is gonna rival the durability of the entire rest of the car... I suppose we can envision 4680 packs having the car replaced around them (ironic opposite of usual concept of needing to replace the pack in the car) but I continue to preach that 4680 is really about manufacturing efficiency - 5 times fewer cells to make per car.

yup and no one here will be driving a Tesla with 250,000 miles on it, no one wants any car with that kind of miles.

 

[ZenRockGarden]

yup and no one here will be driving a Tesla with 250,000 miles on it, no one wants any car with that kind of miles.

There's some 300k+ mile Model S's out there. But yes it's rare, and I believe that level of mileage came with replaced motors, wheel bearings, shocks, etc.

 

[ucmndd]

yup and no one here will be driving a Tesla with 250,000 miles on it, no one wants any car with that kind of miles.

I’m halfway there in 5 years, fully expecting to be there in the next 5.

At any rate, just because the first-world obsessively consuming planet trasher doesn’t want a car for 250k miles, doesn’t mean there’s not a market for one that lasts that long. Many American cast-offs find second/third/fourth lives in developing countries or further down the poverty chain.

 

[ZenRockGarden]

I’m halfway there in 5 years, fully expecting to be there in the next 5.

At any rate, just because the first-world obsessively consuming planet trasher doesn’t want a car for 250k miles, doesn’t mean there’s not a market for one that lasts that long. Many American cast-offs find second/third/fourth lives in developing countries or further down the poverty chain.

I would imagine heavily used model 3's with maybe 60% or 70% of their original range and a worn out interior would be regarded as a delightful alternative to the standard used Prius for anyone needing affordable basic transport and who also has a plug somewhere to hook it up to.

And there's already a solid market for used-car-packs repurposed into fixed storage (which doesn't mind that the pack is half used up). I believe 50% of a model 3 long range pack would basically do the work of 2 powerwalls.

 

[Msicario]

MYP with 4680 probably will have the same range as the current one at the beginning, which means the SA probably didn't lie about it.

BUT, that would also mean it will be lighter than the current MYP, given the 4680 cell has higher energy density. Lighter weight means faster acceleration and shorter stopping distance, and it also means the car is gonna be more agile than the current one. 4680 cell will also have longer life cycle and higher charging speed. These are the core metrics of batteries. And 4680 have major improvements in all these areas.

At this point, Tesla cannot tell you how good the 4680 really is until they switch all the MYLR/MYP to 4680.

I truly don’t get the fact that Tesla in Freemont has over a million 4680 battery cells ready to be shipped to Texas for the MY’s Why not install those same new 4680’s into the MY’s being built there in Fremont ?????

 

[Msicario]

MYP with 4680 probably will have the same range as the current one at the beginning, which means the SA probably didn't lie about it.

BUT, that would also mean it will be lighter than the current MYP, given the 4680 cell has higher energy density. Lighter weight means faster acceleration and shorter stopping distance, and it also means the car is gonna be more agile than the current one. 4680 cell will also have longer life cycle and higher charging speed. These are the core metrics of batteries. And 4680 have major improvements in all these areas.

At this point, Tesla cannot tell you how good the 4680 really is until they switch all the MYLR/MYP to 4680.

 

[ZenRockGarden]

I truly don’t get the fact that Tesla in Freemont has over a million 4680 battery cells ready to be shipped to Texas for the MY’s Why not install those same new 4680’s into the MY’s being built there in Fremont ?????

Because Fremont is not currently set up to build the structural battery pack which the 4680's require. That's what they're trying to perfect and get certified in Texas. Once Texas is pumping them out smoothly, Fremont factory will likely be paused and modified to match. Can't do it the other way around unless you want Tesla to completely stop making Model Y's in the US while they change the Fremont factory.

 

[ub-chariot]

I truly don’t get the fact that Tesla in Freemont has over a million 4680 battery cells ready to be shipped to Texas for the MY’s Why not install those same new 4680’s into the MY’s being built there in Fremont ?????

I believe that's the next move of Tesla. When Texas factory is able to produce enough 4680 for it's own factory, it will be the time for Fremont factory to use 4680 from Kate Road to make 4680 MY in Fremont.

 

[ucmndd]

I believe that's the next move of Tesla. When Texas factory is able to produce enough 4680 for it's own factory, it will be the time for Fremont factory to use 4680 from Kate Road to make 4680 MY in Fremont.

I disagree. I think MY production eventually leaves Fremont completely and all North America MY come from Texas.

 

[ub-chariot]

I disagree. I think MY production eventually leaves Fremont completely and all North America MY come from Texas.

TBH, I hope that's the case as well! Texas has next level production line and the build quality will be much better than Fremont.

But Elon Musk said that Texas factory will focus on east 2/3 of the country once it scales on the most recent earnings call which means Fremont will keep producing all the models it currently produce (it does not make much sense to me as well). But again, at this moment, nothing is for sure, will see how it goes.

 

[drtimhill]

I just got notified that my new MY-P VIN has been assigned. Sales rep told me that my car has the new Ryzen chip plus all the other new stuff except for the 4680 battery. I live in SoCal so the car is coming out of Fremont. He proceeded to say that the 4680 battery will NOT offer longer range for my MY-P because that would simply "invalidate" all the existing MYs. It makes no sense for Tesla to do so. He explained that 4680 simply allows Tesla to be more efficient in manufacturing the batteries. They would just put FEWER batteries in the car to achieve similar range as before.

I'm currently stuck in deciding if I should postpone my delivery in hopes to get the 4680 battery. But if there's no benefit, then I don't need to wait.

While I understand the business decision to allow room to grow and potentially offer even longer range at a higher price point, can anyone confirm if this is in fact true?

The fact is no-one knows. The 4680 increases energy density, so you can either have a smaller battery pack for the same range or a larger battery pack for a longer range (though in fact the smaller pack may well STILL extend range since the car will shed some weight). No-one knows which will turn up .. or even if there may be a choice.

I would not wait .. you could wait a long time, and by definition when you CAN get a 4680-based car there will be some other new thing just on the horizon .. so you will end up waiting forever.

 

[Destiny1701]

If the 4680 has locked range and power presumably for when they finally announce one day in the future , I’d rather be in that camp a year or two from now and not grit my teeth that I purchased an older battery tech right on the cusp of new tech. Tesla is notorious for pushing updates to ‘legacy’ vehicles for only so long and then finally forgetting about them.

Just don’t want to be in my 12-24 month old MYP and one day we all see this update message ..’Congratulations! 4680 battery pack vehicles shall now receive the option to uncork 35miles/60km and .4 sec of extra 0-60mph/100kph power for a $2k fee. Please download your update from your tesla app and enjoy your new features!’

2170 buyers may feel cheated out but Tesla will simply ignore and move on as more and more 2170’s fall out of warranty and they migrate owners to the new tech anyway. They did this with S and even 3 owners many times by just increasing range randomly and not really caring much about prior trim levels.

If it’s one thing I’ve learned about this company over 6 yrs since my first tesla MS, is their disdain for legacy owners and their feelings in the matter. It’s happened too many times with every new significant iteration of a model..leaving its former iteration behind.
Not always, however it sucks for those owners when it occurs. example: one pedal driving for tesla model S 2019+. All ravens received it as they had a new front motor. All pre-2019 Raven MS saw nothing..even those who purchased just 1-4 months prior to the change in 2019 itself. Just don’t want to be that owner who bought a ‘pre’ of a significant improvement in tech. Minor I don’t care.

Just my 2 cents. Could be wrong but I’ll err on the side of caution and patience. Nothing against owning a 2170 by the way! I have a beautiful 22’M3 LR w/boost and would never complain a minute!

 

[SageBrush]

“Million mile” is a chemistry thing and has little if anything to do with packaging. There’s no reason to think that any chemistry improvements in the 4680s aren’t already in the 2170s.

Improved heat removal can only be a good thing for longevity.