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Tesla Software 2019.16.3

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A lot of griping about ELDA. Has anyone here actually experienced an unsafe ELDA interaction?

My guess is that you don't live in the Netherlands (nor Belgium, the land of the really creative human- but not machine readable lane markings).

Yes.

Areas of concern:
-Two way traffic roads with two bike suggestion lanes, where you need to cross into the bike suggestion lane to cross other vehicles. High grass or a tree close to the roadside is sometimes enough to make ELDA freak out and jerk you into the incoming traffic. I see that someone already posted a similar incident above.

-road works with permanent but stale (white) lane markings and temporary and valid road markings (yellow) that weave in between the stale lane markings. Even Autosteer tends to follow the yellow markings, but sometimes ELDA balks at crossing the stale solid white lines and jerks you into following the now stale lane markings (regardless of what's driving there), sometimes even towards a concrete block (which surely is a less virtual obstacle than a solid line painted on the ground).

-Bus stops painted protruding into the right hand lane. You're supposed to cross these when there is no bus, but there are hatched areas to prevent people parking in front or behind the bus stop that ELDA sees as no-go areas (I guess it sees the bus stop as an "obstacle" that it should avoid, but bus stops fortuitously do not cross the road). At one point at one of these bus stops it jerked me to the left and disengaged AutoSteer, leaving the car pointed straight at a lamp post in the median strip.

To be honest: I usually don't wait to see if it will avoid the real obstacle it lobs me towards in order to avoid the virtual obstacle just for the sake of scientific curiosity. Perhaps it would jerk me back to safety avoiding the "other" (very real) emergency, but it should have had the foresight not to create that hazard in the first place.

In some cases the blame lies squarely on whoever was responsible for applying the road markings, but unfortunately we have little control over it. Just to give a couple of examples of really weird markings:

The "London bus from Harry Potter" markings...please tell me how not to cross the solid lines (obstacles placed very close to the roadside for extra fun!):
28965277378_cbee23bde0_c.jpg


The "bike lanes from hell" markings ("I own the road" cyclist optional):
2968700.jpg


Usually I know better than to use AutoSteer in these surroundings -- I have a hunch it might get confused. But the ELDA stays active nonetheless.

There are Google map links to some examples of things we've encountered that give it some trouble in the dedicated thread. If you're really curious, give it a read (no, we're not all Russian troll farmers, some of us are Real People (tm) ).

ELDA on highways (and similar roads) is quite useful, but we'd really need a way to enable or disable it using a voice command, and over here we definitely tend to not want to have to disable it every time we start a drive.
 
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So they don’t brick or introduce a major bug into the entire fleet at the same time.

You guys aren't listening.

Why haven't they rolled out .16.2 to everyone? Masses of people have it but not everyone. Its been tested.

Look...this software version has really been out there for months now. Its not new. AND not everyone has it.

Don't think for a moment that just because 16.2 has started rolling out - that its new. They have beta testers that have been testing this for months now.
Now that its out there....and thousands upon thousands of people have it - why not everyone?

Question: Why isn't .15 fully rolled out yet? You mean to tell me that it hasn't been fully tested in tens of thousands of cars for months?
 
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I turned it off after the other day. 2 lane road, bicyclist on shoulder going opposite way with traffic. Oncoming cars going around the bicyclist and into my lane. Common courtesy around here is to hug the shoulder to let oncoming cars pass. ELDA almost swerved me into the oncoming traffic. I would have side-swiped at least one car had I not been paying attention.
What is ELDA?
 
Drove around for a couple hours after my update with everything on. Not a single issue. Not to dismiss anyone's concerns.
I stand by my comment that you should contact service and let them know you don't feel safe. Maybe there is something else going on that they can address.

I'm guessing nobody uses their turn signal. Had to dodge a tree branch in my lane, used a turn signal so everyone behind me knew I was moving over half a lane. No warnings, no auto-swerve.
 
A lot of griping about ELDA. Has anyone here actually experienced an unsafe ELDA interaction? Or are you just worried about what might happen? I’ve not had a false positive since I’ve had the feature (about 8 days now).


There's a long thread on it: Emergency Lane Departure - False Positives

It may depend on what types of roads you drive. I imagine it's good/useful on highways. But on country roads with lots of curves it's horrible - false positive every 20mins of driving in my experience (and this is across 3 drivers in my household, so different driving styles). And these false positives can be dangerous; not only is it scary to have the car beep loudly and jerk the wheel all of a sudden, it can jerk the wheel towards oncoming bidirectional traffic to avoid the non-emergency in the shoulder. I try to remember to turn the damn thing off every drive, but sometimes I forget.
 
If they are smart they would start as soon as there is parity. As soon as there are features for HW3 which are incompatible with HW2+ then everyone wants to be upgraded at once, lot of sour grapes and a logistical nightmare.

There is going to be sour grapes no matter what, the second word gets out that ANYONE was upgraded from HW 2.5 to 3. It would take months for them to complete the process of updating everyone, even if they were a well oiled machine with this stuff, and they arent that organized.
 

I'm with you - I don't want any feature where the car take controls w/o my input which I can not permanently disable; this is potentially an actionable thing Tesla has done by making a material change in the behavior of the car and essentially making it mandatory. I'm hoping they reconsider ...
Taking what you said literally, means you don’t want automatic emergency braking, ABS brakes or traction control, none of which can be permanently disabled and all of which take control of the car. Is this really the case?

Sorry for any confusion..

I do not want any setting where the car takes control without input from me; ABS works with me when I use the brakes, never (that I know of) w/o my foot on the brake but...

yes, I don't prefer automatic braking because I have had it activate incorrectly, luckily just once but honestly in LA traffic with tailgaters, once was plenty . Called service, they scheduled a camera recalibration service visit but the end result was no action, software is beta, it will get better.

I have disabled the feature which limits acceleration if it thinks something is in front of the car and oddly that setting is allowed to stick. Inconsistencies are also frustrating.

Traction control I have mixed feelings on; this implementation has never taken control w/o input from me but I still insist that if a feature is not required by law and it's my car (I did pay for it) I should retain control over how it behaves

I also don't think I'm being unreasonable; if these features were 100% (or ever 99) I might never have noticed they were there and it would have 'tricked' me into not caring. I've been driving a long time, so blame that if you will, but I pay attention and take driving seriously and I require a predictable car. Love my 3 but these features are not predictable and for me, that is less safe.
 
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Sorry for any confusion..

...

I also don't think I'm being unreasonable; if these features were 100% (or ever 99) I might never have noticed they were there and it would have 'tricked' me into not caring. I've been driving a long time, so blame that if you will, but I pay attention and take driving seriously and I require a predictable car. Love my 3 but these features are not predictable and for me, that is less safe.


My issue with ELDA is nothing theoretical; it's just that the false-positive rate is wayyy too high. Honestly, it's so bad I can't recommend the car to people anymore :( . Most people aren't going to tolerate turning the feature off every single drive, and at least on the roads I drive, leaving it on results in a scary driving experience.
 
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It’s really heartbreaking because I thought Tesla’s philosophy was different. Autopilot should be off when it’s off. I don’t want the car grabbing the wheel over its own faulty sensor/camera readings when I’m ostensibly in control.

I’m supposed to pick up my car in a week. If this doesn’t look like its getting fixed by then, well, I don’t see why I’d take the car.
 
It’s really heartbreaking because I thought Tesla’s philosophy was different. Autopilot should be off when it’s off. I don’t want the car grabbing the wheel over its own faulty sensor/camera readings when I’m ostensibly in control.

I’m supposed to pick up my car in a week. If this doesn’t look like its getting fixed by then, well, I don’t see why I’d take the car.

Where do you typically drive, Zoinks? As soon as I got 2019.16.2 I turned on all of these safety features and spent a few hours on 495, 95, 50, Old Bridge, down to Tysons. I had the lane assist activate once near a construction zone where I was absent-mindedly merging by just letting the car drift. Otherwise, I haven't had a single one of these "false-positives" everyone is complaining about. As far as I'm concerned, ELDA works flawlessly around the DMV.
 
A lot of griping about ELDA. Has anyone here actually experienced an unsafe ELDA interaction? Or are you just worried about what might happen? I’ve not had a false positive since I’ve had the feature (about 8 days now).
My wife and i experienced a disturbing event yesterday afternoon.

There was a vehicle that was in the opposing lane of traffic but about 15% of it was in our lane (stationary). When my wife moved closer to the right side curb (to avoid hitting that vehicle), the Model 3 tried to very forcefully push her into the stationary vehicle, thinking that WE were veering off the road (and attempting to put us back in our lane), while completely ignoring the other vehicle partially in our lane
 
Where do you typically drive, Zoinks? As soon as I got 2019.16.2 I turned on all of these safety features and spent a few hours on 495, 95, 50, Old Bridge, down to Tysons. I had the lane assist activate once near a construction zone where I was absent-mindedly merging by just letting the car drift. Otherwise, I haven't had a single one of these "false-positives" everyone is complaining about. As far as I'm concerned, ELDA works flawlessly around the DMV.

Driving out of DC during rush hour they deliberately reconfigure roads to run against the marked lanes. So parts of e.g. Canal Road you’ll be driving on the “wrong” side of the road because a two-way single lane road is temporarily designated a one-way two-lane road. And a million other things like that. I have to navigate around double parked cars or just people being stupid in the middle of the road all the time. I “absent mindedly merge by letting the car drift” all the time, if you mean the innumerable zipper merges around the DC area. Your one example would be way too much for me.

There are so many spots in chaotic urban traffic where what you do—what you are even SUPPOSED to do—is not what the road markings literally indicate.
 
Driving out of DC during rush hour they deliberately reconfigure roads to run against the marked lanes. So parts of e.g. Canal Road you’ll be driving on the “wrong” side of the road because a two-way single lane road is temporarily designated a one-way two-lane road. And a million other things like that. I have to navigate around double parked cars or just people being stupid in the middle of the road all the time. I “absent mindedly merge by letting the car drift” all the time, if you mean the innumerable zipper merges around the DC area. Your one example would be way too much for me.

There are so many spots in chaotic urban traffic where what you do—what you are even SUPPOSED to do—is not what the road markings literally indicate.

As long as you use turn signals and/or steer the car over lane lines, it won't activate. It only activates when there is no torque on the steering wheel. So literally the only scenario where it should activate is when you're just resting your hands on the wheel and let the car gradually drift over lane lines.

Just keep in mind that over 70% of all HW2.5 vehicles have 2019.16.2 right now. How many people have complained about the new features here? Fifty? For every 1 person experiencing issues, there are hundreds enjoying the new features. And to top it off, 2019.16.2 comes with Advanced Software Update preferences, so if Tesla does make tweaks you'll be the first to get them.
 
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Thanks, Willow, I take your point.

But I think there are a lot of instances where I would not be putting in steering input to move the car, because I’m a good driver and I look ahead and let the car drift gently rather than sawing at the wheel the whole time. Like the example just above my last post where someone let the car gently track out to the shoulder to avoid a car partially in her lane, only to have ELDA grab the wheel. Screw that.

This “feature” is so sad.
 
I don't like ELDA as well. There is a stretch of potholes and I have to ride on the left shoulder a bit to avoid it. Since ELDA, the car will veer back to hit it.

Yeah, this is exactly what I mean. I do the same thing every day in my “legacy” car. I’ve got two wheels on the edge of the lane on a short stretch of my commute because the center is torn up.

This kind of stuff is everywhere.
 
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