Yep. The warranty will die before the battery.
Just charge according to recommendations
Toggle the displayed km to battery % just drive and charge
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Tesla Software updates - Australia
- Thread starter Grenadine
- Start date
Just charge according to recommendations
Toggle the displayed km to battery % just drive and charge
OzTzlaBloke
Member
I think in general Teslas view on how to use the battery in terms of their recommended SoC - how to charge it with what C rates as per their supercharging tips etcetc is pretty solid
Something they also stress is plug it in parked - so especially people with the heat pump models that means in super hot climates your getting more protection for your vehicle as the cooling can kick in
For me personally Im into the SoC55 club because I can do all my general use cases under that model where Im "storing" or want of a better word having it parked most of the time around 45-55% SoC with a very shallow depth of discharge. This for me optimises both the calendar age degradation and the cyclic age degtradation. The fact I freeze in winter is also very helpful. Some lithium ion cells under similar conditions have literally lasted 20 years with very little degradation
The fact Tesla are now changing this to 80% makes me think there are batteries dying before the warranty. Maybe lots of them. Why else would Tesla change the limit unless it was costing them money
Wonder if this will be the only mitigation or if we see further changes in the coming years similar to what happened with the 85kWh batteries.
I'd have thought we'd have heard of that happening by now if it was commonplace.
I would have thought that a warranty battery replacement would be widely publicised in forums and Facebook....a quick search does not indicate a widespread problem with battery degradation, or battery replacement causing Tesla to reduce its warranty.
Currently a warranty trigger is 70% not 80%. Has it always be 70%
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There was a vague article in the media around a week ago about a special team setup at tesla to manage claims of falling milage. Whether or not it was factual was vague as there was no tesla contribution to the piece
It could also be that tesla are seeing excessive early degradation or damage in the earliest versions of a battery type and are taking steps to stretch beyond warranty
Dont know, but at least in social media or tesla/ reddit forums, reports of battery degradation say in excess of 20% appear to be rare - especially within the 8 year warranty period. Even Toyota hybrid batteries have consistently outlived their predicted lifespan
It’s a different story with Powerwalls though. The warranty is 70% retention within 10 years. My PW2 capacity is now just below 10 kWh after 4 years, a degradation of 24% from the warranted 13.2 kWh at installation (i.e. 76% capacity left). The degradation has slowed, but I’m still nailed on for a warranty replacement after about 7 years based on a trend of the data.
By then they might not be making PW2 any more and they’ll have to give me a PW3
OzTzlaBloke
Member
The NISSAN Leaf is notorious for crap degradation but it seems others since learnt how not to do it
Sure, but that was not a battery issue. It was a design issue where there was inadequate battery cooling and the battery overheated.
For what it’s worth, my Powerwall 1 is at about 76% after 7 years, with a full charge cycle nearly every day.
2500 full charge cycles. Still going strong.
That would be 1,000,000km if it were a car.
Thats the difference. Cyclic ageing is significant in a PW2. Most PW charge/discharge cycles are very different to EV. They tend to run full charge cycles because they are much smaller batteries.
If PW2 were the size of a Tesla M3 RWD, the depth of discharge would be a lot smaller resulting in a lot less equivalent full charge/discharge cycles , and cyclic ageing would then be irrelevant relative to calendar ageing.
For a typical use case in Australia where 20,000km per year is more or less "nominal". This is equivalent to 20,000km/70 = 285 charges of 11kW per year. = 3142kWh per year.
Assuming nominal battery size of 60kWh, the full charge/discharge cycle is 3142/60 = 52 full cycles per year.
Even if we add 20% for ancillary non km battery use thats only 60 cycles per year.
One reason that unless people are driving 192,000/8 = 24,000km per year (the warranty period of a MYLR battery), they are likely better off with a RWD in terms of the battery consideration - because of the significance of calendar ageing
My take home message is - drive the EV a lot because calendar ageing is the more significant that cyclic ageing. No use saving the km to "preserve the battery".
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It's only 6 years since 2170 was introduced. Tesla didn't start tinkering with the 85kWh packs until 7 years.
Looking at degradation reports it seems quite a few people with 15% after 4 years. The highest I've seen was 15% after 2 years and that was in a person charging to 90% daily. I've always thought these levels of degradation must be rare because otherwise Tesla would have acted to lower the daily recommendation...
Yep. Tesla have all the data. There must be a material impact expected for them to make the change. If it was rare they wouldn't bother.
How are you measuring the capacity of your Powerwall 1?
I suspect mine has degraded substantially and I contacted Tesla last summer as I hadn’t heard the cooling fan blowing for some time and they remotely monitored it supposedly and said all was good.
That is not what I meant. Tesla might be expecting a 2% degradation by say 100000km but are seeing double that, so they react now even though the deg is 4% to avoid a big issue later. (The numbers here are for illustration only).
Ultimately if there is no issue tesla would not make the change.
Sadly I’ve found when tesla say something is good it usually is not, especially when coming from the usa powerwall call centre
EcoCloudIT
Active Member
Something I complained about last week when at Tesla....they completely missed the point and tested the battery when I continually told them it is not a battery issue...my issue is we got sold a Model X that was meant to do about 417km...at 90% charged that is 375km's....so take this 375km's and take another 30% off and one gets 265km'ish of range...trouble is we are LUCKY if we actually get 220km's of range...we have never had the half shafts replaced (means we drive like grandma's), on our first set of tyres (at 50,000'ish km's), have all possible battery saving turned on and on top of this in winter run the air-con temp at 20C and summer at 24C.....
So, no matter what we do (inlcuding most cars over takings us when accelerating) we are lucky if we can get around about 50% of the range we got told we should get...I have complained about this from 6mths of buying the X and have always been told wait until summer (no better), change wheels from 22" to 20" (did this and zero difference that we can notice)....
So, after a negative visit to Tesla a few days ago I am all ears on what I should do next? I have requested management call me (2 days have pasted and no call)....should I be calling the ACCC or?
EcoCloudIT
Active Member
H
How do you know you are at 24%? I don't keep figures like yourself, however is there an eye way I can do a test?
It’s a different story with Powerwalls though. The warranty is 70% retention within 10 years. My PW2 capacity is now just below 10 kWh after 4 years, a degradation of 24% from the warranted 13.2 kWh at installation (i.e. 76% capacity left). The degradation has slowed, but I’m still nailed on for a warranty replacement after about 7 years based on a trend of the data.
By then they might not be making PW2 any more and they’ll have to give me a PW3
How do you know you are at 24%? I don't keep figures like yourself, however is there an eye way I can do a test?
Have you checked your range loss overnight or over a couple of days?…and I wouldn’t hopeful of that call
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