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Nothing is implied in FSD. FSD is Elon's pipe dream / aspirational marketing pitch.

The only way to tell if it's getting anywhere close to being partially realized is observing how building-block features, that would add-up to FSD, start showing up as "safety alerts" on present day Teslas.

If they don't, you know FSD remains nothing but a bluff.
Your inability to grasp this causal relationship is mildly entertaining!


a

I am not sure what you are trying to say. FSD according to the SAE is a system that can handle the entire dynamic driving task. So yes, true FSD has to be able to handle all safety features.

Not sure what you mean by FSD has to have "safety alerts". Are you saying that Tesla has to add features like rear cross traffic alert where it beeps when a car is coming in order to be real FSD? You do realize that rear cross traffic alerts are a L1 feature, they have nothing to do FSD, right? Adding all the L1 safety alerts in the world does not make a car FSD! FSD is defined by the car handling all driving, not by how many alerts it gives the driver.
 
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I am not sure what you are trying to say. FSD according to the SAE is a system that can handle the entire dynamic driving task. So yes, true FSD has to be able to handle all safety features.

Last time I checked, Elon was not SAE.
What Elon calls FSD today, or tomorrow, is entirely up to him.
Whether or not that Elon FSD, or eFSD, adds up to an actual real-world self-driving functionality with lower than 1% error rate, is utterly unknown at this time.


Not sure what you mean by FSD has to have "safety alerts". Are you saying that Tesla has to add features like rear cross traffic alert where it beeps when a car is coming in order to be real FSD?

That would be the ONLY way for any of us to gauge Tesla's progress towards the goal of delivery actual real-world self-driving functionality.

Trust, but verify !

You do realize that rear cross traffic alerts are a L1 feature, they have nothing to do FSD, right? Adding all the L1 safety alerts in the world does not make a car FSD! FSD is defined by the car handling all driving, not by how many alerts it gives the driver.

L1-5 are nebulous and meaningless name tags.

If a Model 3 can't detect a threat on the road, it sure as hack won't be able to FSD-avoid it.
If a Model 3 has developed an ability to detect a threat, a stepping stone validation of that ability is alerting the driver to that threat (red lights, cross-traffic, blind spot, etc). The subsequent steps would involve reducing the detection error rate, and coding appropriate responses to mitigate those treats.

Alas, if a Model 3 can't alert of a threat today, the chances of it successfully FSD-mitigating them at any point in the future, is exponentially reduced.

Should be common sense.
 
L1-5 are nebulous and meaningless name tags.

L1-5 are not nebulous and meaningless name tags. They are very well defined by the SAE. For your convenience, I have attached the SAE document. It is 7 pages that clearly defines what self-driving is and what the levels mean. There is nothing nebulous about it.

If a Model 3 can't detect a threat on the road, it sure as hack won't be able to FSD-avoid it.
If a Model 3 has developed an ability to detect a threat, a stepping stone validation of that ability is alerting the driver to that threat (red lights, cross-traffic, blind spot, etc). The subsequent steps would involve reducing the detection error rate, and coding appropriate responses to mitigate those treats.

Alas, if a Model 3 can't alert of a threat today, the chances of it successfully FSD-mitigating them at any point in the future, is exponentially reduced.

Should be common sense.

I think I get what you are saying. Basically you want safety alerts to prove to you as the driver that the car can detect these safety issues and therefore the car has what it takes to do FSD. But what you are forgetting is that a lack of alerts does not necessarily mean that the car lacks the safety feature. Sure for testing or validation purposes, it is useful for the car to alert the driver/safety tester. That's why Tesla's development cars show the traffic light icon on the screen so that the driver can see what the car sees. But the finished product does not need those alerts. Once the feature is reliable, you can just have the car stop at red lights without beeping at the driver every time it sees a red light.

A good way that we can gauge FSD progress is whether the features work. We don't necessarily need alerts for everything. For example, if the car successfully stops at red lights, we know Tesla has implemented that FSD feature. We don't need the car to beep at every red light to know that the car can see red lights.

Just remember that just because the car does not alert to you to something does not necessarily mean that it does not see that safety issue. I am sure there is a lot that AP does behind the scenes that it does not tell the driver about.
 

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  • SAE levels.pdf
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Last time I checked, Elon was not SAE.
What Elon calls FSD today, or tomorrow, is entirely up to him.
Whether or not that Elon FSD, or eFSD, adds up to an actual real-world self-driving functionality with lower than 1% error rate, is utterly unknown at this time.

1% Error rate ! That would be huge considering both a human is probably processing 10s of things per second as well as even today’s Neural Net based system.
 
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Am I the only one who would love a speed dial/favorite contacts function?

When voice control works perfectly, why bother? Who wants to look at list of 10 favorites while driving. Seems so old school.

Name your contact “Mom”, then just say “Call Mom”.

I’ve edited/split some contacts down to only having a single number. Because saying “on mobile” or “on work” doesn’t work so good and frequently prompts on the screen.
 
When voice control works perfectly, why bother? Who wants to look at list of 10 favorites while driving. Seems so old school.

Name your contact “Mom”, then just say “Call Mom”.

I’ve edited/split some contacts down to only having a single number. Because saying “on mobile” or “on work” doesn’t work so good and frequently prompts on the screen.


Siri can understand "call mom- home" as different from "call mom-mobile"

Why can't the car?

Forcing you to make separate named contacts for each is just stupid in a world where voice recognition is as good as it is by now.


Maybe down the line some items in V10 will only work with newer hardware HW3. This will help convicts people to buy FSD that will come with new hardware. Just my 2 cents.


...like what are you thinking of? Remember HW3 is just the driving computer upgrade it doesn't change the media computer.
 
You can absolutely browse artists (and other sorting methods) and also search for music via USB (as in from a USB key)- bonus you'll get far higher quality music than bluetooth is capable of too (assuming quality source files). No playlists though.... (I suppose you can kinda make your own using folders but that's a kludge)

Not on a phone though. Browsing folders on a primitive USB, no thanks, just another thing I have to manage, and I’m frankly out of USB ports with TeslaCam a wireless and a wired charger on a splitter.

I get the adamant defense of tesla, but it’s shameful that a car with this much tech and Buggy Racing (which is of zero value to me) can’t freaking stream music from a smartphone like a run of the mill $20k name-the-brand car can.

All that said, Navigate of Autopilot nearly killed me last night, so just wishful thinking for something concrete that isn’t some next generation science fair project.
 
Since I first tried AP late last year, it’s improved in a lot of small ways. My most recent trip from the SF Bay area to Portland OR was much more smoothly handled that eight months ago. (Handling of merge lanes and merging traffic is vastly improved, reducing speed automatically in mountain turns is highly welcome, the absence of panic warnings in the mountains is welcome, and the ability to see somewhat ambiguous lane markings is improved, and night driving is improved.

I think FSD remains super distant, but am highly optimistic about continued improvement as a driver assist system into the indefinite future. My main concern is that Musk continues to sell a capability that I don’t see that he’s going to be able to deliver. Given that I think there’s a lot he CAN deliver, his over-promising seems kind of crazy.
 
Not on a phone though. Browsing folders on a primitive USB, no thanks just another thing I have to manage

Not clear what's "primitive" about it.

It stores music on flash memory. Same thing your phone does.

You can browse via artist, folder, album, all the common ways you'd expect to other than by playlists (where you could kludge that using a folder if you really wanted to). Same thing would happen if you could plug in your phone via USB to browse the music on it.

I've got ~200 gigs of high quality music on mine, there's no real "management" involved once it's created.




, , and I’m frankly out of USB ports with TeslaCam a wireless and a wired charger on a splitter.

Plenty of solutions for that. I'm running 2 wired chargers, a camera USB key, and a music USB key for example.

Depending on the size of your music collection you might not even need another port as the Teslacam and music content can both be on the same USB key in their own partitions.


I get the adamant defense of tesla

I'm not really "defending" tesla- I'm pointing out a number of the features you said you wished you had are available to you if you just copy the music on a USB key rather than your phone.


, but it’s shameful that a car with this much tech and Buggy Racing (which is of zero value to me) can’t freaking stream music from a smartphone like a run of the mill $20k name-the-brand car can.

I agree it's dumb they don't let you play music from the phone via USB, but I still don't see what you'd really get from that other than not needing to make a copy of it onto a key to get the same thing right now.

I can think of a ton of other much more significant shortcomings in the infotainment system than that one.

Lack of waypoints in nav for example- a super complex problem that Garmin had figured out in 2004.





Will YouTube require premium connectivity? Tesla’s FAQ says, “Connectivity plans for Model 3 without Premium Interior will be announced later this year.”


Of course that FAQ is from 2018.

As mentioned, Tesla can't figure out how to bill it's own existing customers, for a service it's already providing them....so I wouldn't hold my breath for them to figure out how to bill NEW service anytime soon.
 
1% Error rate ! That would be huge considering both a human is probably processing 10s of things per second as well as even today’s Neural Net based system.

Yep.
But you probably also realize that even 1% error rate may be way too high for true autonomous driving (FSD branded, or not). Depending on the situation, you may want <0.01% error rate (e.g.: correctly detecting and stopping at red lights), which is a ridiculously high engineering reliability bar for which to aim.


L1-5 are not nebulous and meaningless name tags. They are very well defined by the SAE.

SAE L1-5 definitions are bureaucratic meaningless BS.
No automaker is developing to L#. Sales people may be selling to L#s, but engineers develop features.

Tesla, like all OEMs, is developing features that either work well, or not so well, yet.
And then they keep improving them. Step by step.

Whether or not those features add up to some bureaucrat's definition of an L#, is only interesting to sales people and consultants.


I think I get what you are saying. Basically you want safety alerts to prove to you as the driver that the car can detect these safety issues and therefore the car has what it takes to do FSD. But what you are forgetting is that a lack of alerts does not necessarily mean that the car lacks the safety feature.

I am pretty sure that Tesla lacks the hardware (not just software) for rear cross traffic alerts, rear emergency braking, and infrared forward night vision. Never mind Lidar.

Elon thinks those are unnecessary.
May be he is right, may be he is wrong.
The only way to find out is by observing how well those "interim" alert features cover those capability gaps. However buggy and annoying, having those alerts (that you can, hopefully, turn off) indicates progress towards FSD goals.

Lack of alerts indicates lack of feature development progress.


A good way that we can gauge FSD progress is whether the features work. We don't necessarily need alerts for everything. For example, if the car successfully stops at red lights, we know Tesla has implemented that FSD feature. We don't need the car to beep at every red light to know that the car can see red lights.

Judging by past features reliability and hilarious Warnings and Disclaimers in Model 3 manual (LKAS, ACC, etc), I have ZERO trust in Tesla's ability to stop for red lights correctly with greater than 99% success rate.

The downside of not stopping for a red light is severe (accident with major injuries, if not deaths), so there is no way in hell I would blindly "trust" Tesla to get it right for my family.

Either those red-light alerts are displayed reliably in advance (visual indicators, beeps, seat / steering wheel vibration, whatever), or Elon can train the NN on his own family, friends, and employees.

They won't be risking the lives of mine, that's for certain!


a
 
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Elon has oddly generalized his recent responses to the spotify and bluetooth/phone integration questions recently. I wonder if they are going to surprise us with a more full feature update, or maybe even carplay/android auto
 
Elon has oddly generalized his recent responses to the spotify and bluetooth/phone integration questions recently. I wonder if they are going to surprise us with a more full feature update, or maybe even carplay/android auto

I would surmise that Elon's recent tendency to "generalize" is driven more my shareholder/attorney pressure than anything else. Time will tell...
 
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SAE L1-5 definitions are bureaucratic meaningless BS.

Sorry but I have to completely disagree there. SAE is the Society of Automotive Engineers. They are not some meaningless bureaucracy. They are the international society of all automotive engineers. SAE L1-5 are well defined engineering terms, put together by the top engineers in the field.

Lack of alerts indicates lack of feature development progress.

Wrong. As I mentioned before, there can be plenty of progress "under the hood" of the NN that we don't see.

Judging by past features reliability and hilarious Warnings and Disclaimers in Model 3 manual (LKAS, ACC, etc), I have ZERO trust in Tesla's ability to stop for red lights correctly with greater than 99% success rate.

The downside of not stopping for a red light is severe (accident with major injuries, if not deaths), so there is no way in hell I would blindly "trust" Tesla to get it right for my family.

Either those red-light alerts are displayed reliably in advance (visual indicators, beeps, seat / steering wheel vibration, whatever), or I Elon can train the NN on his own family and employees.
They won't be risking the lives of mine, that's for certain!

Clearly, you don't trust Tesla to develop these features safely. I don't share your mistrust. When Tesla releases traffic light stop feature, I will pay attention to the road and be careful. But I don't need Tesla to babysit me with beeps and alerts every single time the car sees a red light, just to make me feel better. In fact, I turned off the notifications for auto lane change because it was annoying to get beeps or vibrations every time the car wanted to make a lane change. But it seems that you do need those alerts to make you feel better. More power to you!
 
I would give anything to be able to browse playlists on my phone over Bluetooth. My last two cars had this function and it greatly mitigated the lack of CarPlay.

Muting my radio (and passengers) to get Siri to start a playlist from memory is a clunky workaround to this basic functionality.

That’s all I care about in v10 but I’m curious to see the other changes. I’m never at a supercharger long enough to care about streaming video content.