Tesla Sues Ontario Government

[5_+JqckQttqck]

I think you're right and it speaks to whether or not there is any sincere intent (by this government or last) to really want to reduce carbon emissions from transportation. I think (as is typical in politics), they will only really "care" about this issue, when the poll numbers tell them they should really care about this issue.

I just had this debate with my brother-in-law this weekend who drives a gas guzzling Range Rover, complaining that he shouldn't have to pay for the cars of "hippies" like me. I would bet (and judging from the comments section from that article), I would bet he is in the (misinformed) majority in the Province.

They're happy to be blind / ignorant about the state of thing with our climate and ice shelves. Out of sight, out of mind... oh wait, wild fires, flash flood rains, and ponds of fish living on Centre Island. That's totally normal . When gas hits 2.00 a litre, he will come around.

 

[Struja]

They're happy to be blind / ignorant about the state of thing with our climate and ice shelves. Out of sight, out of mind... oh wait, wild fires, flash flood rains, and ponds of fish living on Centre Island. That's totally normal . When gas hits 2.00 a litre, he will come around.

Right on. Today is a perfect example. More flooding in Toronto (I think this is the 4th time this year). I urged my father to "bump up" his sewer back up coverage on his home as this is the new norm.

BTW - my little helpful tip to all of the other TMC members... check your homeowners coverage for "sewer backup". Most policies don't cover "floods" or outside water in the basement but will cover sewere backup. TD's (my insurer) standard coverage is only 15k. You can buy up to 50k or 100k if you have a back flow valve and a sump pump. Anyone who has had flooding in the basement knows that just the cleanup alone can run you 30k.

 

[pcons]

They're happy to be blind / ignorant about the state of thing with our climate and ice shelves. Out of sight, out of mind... oh wait, wild fires, flash flood rains, and ponds of fish living on Centre Island. That's totally normal . When gas hits 2.00 a litre, he will come around.

People only get passionate about something when it affects them....

Now:

"Someone else is getting a $14k rebate? That affects me because I want a rebate too!"

Future:

"Gas is $2.00+/L? We need more sustainable forms of transportation that cost less!"

 

[Vawlkus]

I think you're right and it speaks to whether or not there is any sincere intent (by this government or last) to really want to reduce carbon emissions from transportation. I think (as is typical in politics), they will only really "care" about this issue, when the poll numbers tell them they should really care about this issue.

I just had this debate with my brother-in-law this weekend who drives a gas guzzling Range Rover, complaining that he shouldn't have to pay for the cars of "hippies" like me. I would bet (and judging from the comments section from that article), I would bet he is in the (misinformed) majority in the Province.

I always come back with “Well can I have my tax money back from the 5 trillion gas companies got this year?”
They wanna talk subsidies? Point out how much they’re paying to gas and oil. And it’s ALL from their taxes.

 

[Chris Fox]

I would disagree; the $14000 was a major driver for me (middle class - college educated technician) being able to afford this car that I've been wanting since a child oh twenty years ago when they first killed the electric car. Here's what I see - a new government dismantling everything the old government has done without any thought or financial/fiscal plan - nor any plans to replace/upgrade the things they're taking down.

Tesla is fighting back because they've suffered sale losses due to being "singled" out by these policies. No major brand would stand for that without a fight and standing behind their potential customers is a good optical move. The people who sides with Ford wouldn't buy a Tesla car to begin with so Tesla is not losing any sales on that front. In fact, with this increase of news coverage (btw bias af), those ill informed people may do their own investigating and find out that Ford is a total hypocrite by saying Tesla creates no jobs in Ontario when in reality - Ontario OEMs and their supply chain has received many contracts from Tesla in the past and will do so in the future when the Model Y is in the works because our Automotive sector is world class and at a discount versus the American supply chain when you factor in the USD vs CAD rates.

Further down economic food chain and the greater economy, people like me - the engineers, the production line worker, the managers, etc who work at said OEMs and supply chain - spend their money locally and support other businesses. Ford nor the media has ever mentioned any of these facts. Model 3 ramp up has been a boon to the Ontario automotive sector and economy the past three years.

I hope you didn't cancel your order... If you did you basically let Doug Ford and his corrupt dealership buddies win. The transition to a sustainable future is going to be hard fought and all of us are going to have to make sacrifices.

 

[felixculpas]

Having cancelled my order, I would tend to disagree with that. There is a good chance the CDN feds will introduce something, perhaps this fall and then I'm sure many of those who cancelled, will just re-order. If there is no incentive available by spring, I'll order anyway and take the hit as I do agree with your last point and an EV is just one aspect of my personal "transition".

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

I hope you didn't cancel your order... If you did you basically let Doug Ford and his corrupt dealership buddies win. The transition to a sustainable future is going to be hard fought and all of us are going to have to make sacrifices.

I did not; I ordered the day after I got the invite email and took delivery on election day June 7th

 

[Chris Fox]

Having cancelled my order, I would tend to disagree with that. There is a good chance the CDN feds will introduce something, perhaps this fall and then I'm sure many of those who cancelled, will just re-order. If there is no incentive available by spring, I'll order anyway and take the hit as I do agree with your last point and an EV is just one aspect of my personal "transition".

That sucks. You let the corrupt politicians, dealerships and fossil fuel industry win.

 

[Tony_YYZ]

That sucks. You let the corrupt politicians, dealerships and fossil fuel industry win.

It's not that simple. The rebate may have been the tipping point between being able to afford the car or not right now.

 

[felixculpas]

That sucks. You let the corrupt politicians, dealerships and fossil fuel industry win.

No, I followed my own unique path and did what was best for my circumstances. In fact I would argue the opposite. Why on earth would anyone that wasn't desperate for a new vehicle not have the patience to see what transpires federally? If something is rolled out, hopefully it will apply from June 30th for those that have purchased. (edit - and didn't get an EHVIP rebate)

I'm committed to buying a Tesla later this year or in the spring, how is that letting anyone win?

Besides, for me, it's not as much about your talking points as it is the environment and overall I've done quite a bit. EV's are just one part of my overall strategy.

Lastly, I already have a very nice hybrid SUV that I've put 265,000 km on without ONE issue so without an incentive, the prospect of a M3 does have some fears, esp post-warranty. What I really want is a Model Y. Maybe I'll consider a 3rd party lease on the M3 when I re-order one and grab a Y three years later. Regardless of what's offered at that time, I will only be considering a Tesla. (who's stock I bought when it was down on Monday morning)

 

[felixculpas]

As mentioned by others in the EHVIP thread, Ontario asks court to toss lawsuit from Tesla over electric vehicle rebates.

I can't see it being tossed. Could get very interesting.

 

[Switzch]

Does anyone have any idea how long this process would typically take? How quickly could the court throw out the case, and if not thrown out, how quickly would it go through the process? I have zero knowledge of how this works.

 

[KEvans]

As mentioned by others in the EHVIP thread, Ontario asks court to toss lawsuit from Tesla over electric vehicle rebates.

I can't see it being tossed. Could get very interesting.

I don't know the law well enough to make a judgment. The big point made by the government is that it was a "cabinet level decision." I know that eliminates the Ombudsman as an option - I don't know if that prevents companies like Tesla from suing for unfair practices. I am hopeful we will find out today. The sooner the better, one way or the other.

 

[MP3Mike]

I didn't expect it to be this quick: Tesla wins against Ontario gov as judge rules that phase-out of EV incentives is discriminatory

Why can't we get speedy judgments like that here in the US?

In Ontario, a judge has sided with Tesla and agreed that the government was discriminating against the company when it excluded Tesla from the phase-out period of the removal of the province’s EV incentives.

Now it is up to the Ministry of Transport’s to make things right for the Tesla buyers.

 

[Ludatik]

I didn't expect it to be this quick: Tesla wins against Ontario gov as judge rules that phase-out of EV incentives is discriminatory

Why can't we get speedy judgments like that here in the US?

Unbelievable turn of events! We’ve been discussing in the other thread since around lunchtime when @BrianH first broke the news.

Ontario EV Rebates Cancelled July 11, 2018

 

[rapoport3a]

As of 10 PM on the 27th, no traditional media have picked this up AFAIK. While I won't doubt the basics, I caution against interpreting a ruling almost no one has read and no one in a qualified legal position has commented on.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Mmmm

I didn't expect it to be this quick: Tesla wins against Ontario gov as judge rules that phase-out of EV incentives is discriminatory

Why can't we get speedy judgments like that here in the US?

Nom nom nom nom. That's the tastiest piece of humble pie ever.

However, note that it doesn't mean that Tesla buyers will definitely receive the rebate. It means the government needs new phase-out rules. But it's hard to see how they can avoid it.

 

[Buggle]

Mmmm
Wow.

Nom nom nom nom. That's the tastiest piece of humble pie ever.

However, note that it doesn't mean that Tesla buyers will definitely receive the rebate. It means the government needs new phase-out rules.

I think it pretty much does. It guarantees Tesla will be treated the same as any other manufacturers, and I don't see them going back and trying to exclude everybody at this point. I think that'd also be illegal given the government's previous statements on the topic.

 

[Ludatik]

As of 10 PM on the 27th, no traditional media have picked this up AFAIK. While I won't doubt the basics, I caution against interpreting a ruling almost no one has read and no one in a qualified legal position has commented on.

Tesla wins lawsuit against Ontario government over phase-out of electric vehicle incentives | The Star

Tesla wins case against Ontario government over electric vehicle rebates | CBC News

 

[rapoport3a]

The reports on this that I've seen in the last hour are incomplete, confusing, contradictory, and badly written. Here's hoping the government is cornered, but don't count on it. The lawsuits could go on for some time; it's every con government's ideal to force its opponents to lose by drawing out legal issues for as long as possible.