TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Tesla Supercharger network

Discussion in 'Charging Standards and Infrastructure' started by dsm363, May 25, 2012.

  1. dadaleus

    dadaleus 4GETOIL P85#S70,FdrX,S85D

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    884
    Location:
    Solana Beach, California, United States
    Correct. :)
     
  2. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    14,792
    Location:
    CA CA
    At some point in the future even local yokels in Timbuktu will have a Tesla. Then the travel spots will be packed. We have to come up with a term for that. Yokeld?
     
  3. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2012
    Messages:
    7,016
    Hey... just because I still have to climb a pole to answer my telephone calls doesn't mean I'm not entitled to charge my flying carpet too! :)

    Just remember that some of us "local yokels" already have Teslas. :)
     
  4. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,389
    Location:
    Boston North Shore
    If they are at Tesla facilities, they're almost certainly in a business zoned area, plus it would be trivial to make sure that only boni fide travelers use them, at least during business hours.
    Anyway, not building them because they might get used seems an odd trade off. The cost to build them is low at existing facilities, so it's not a zero sum game where adding one to a service center subtracts one from a highway rest stop.
     
  5. jcstp

    jcstp Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,627
    Location:
    Belgium
    If they put HPC, asside Superchargers, people can choose fast or fastest charge! ;-)
    Would 4 hpc cost more than 4 superchargers?
    I guess once the basics of a supercharger are installed, adding berths will cost +/- same as adding a hpc! no?
     
  6. daxz

    daxz Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Messages:
    143
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Some of the most strategic locations would be near major interstate intersections which are also in metropolitan areas. This way they can cover multiple routes with one facility. I think as supercharger locations become more congested they could add additional chargers in same location quicker and cheaper than leasing/buying new locations.
     
  7. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2012
    Messages:
    4,279
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    There is the problem that most of these locations would most likely need a larger power feed than they currently have. This service upgrade can be VERY expensive.

    I bet a lot of their Supercharger location requirements is nearby large power feed to tap off of.
     
  8. Enadler

    Enadler Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2012
    Messages:
    352
    Location:
    Westchester, NY
    Actually I believe Superchargers are all Solar powered.
     
  9. arg

    arg Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Messages:
    712
    Location:
    Cambridge, UK
    That's one of the potentially clever things with Tesla's plan for solar power: put in a big enough solar array that it needs the hefty grid connection to take the generated power, then you have it available in the reverse direction when the sun's not shining. And with the various incentives for solar power, that side of the setup can pay for itself, leaving the marginal cost for the supercharger quite low. Probably not quite as good as that since the solar array would be too big (at least with the 'canopy' approach), but if it offsets part of the cost it's still a nice win.

    Not sure it works quite as well in places with less sunshine than California - maybe in Norway they will place the superchargers in locations suited to hydro rather than solar?
     
  10. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    9,734
    Location:
    Central New York
    No. In fact even the ones with solar panels don't supply the full power from the panels but draw from the grid, the panels just supplement and feed power back to the grid when no one is charging.
     
  11. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2012
    Messages:
    4,279
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Well they have solar panels on them. They are all grid powered. But the thought is the solar panels will generate more aggregate power than the superchargers put out over a period of time (probably a year, to average out summer and winter). But if they were solar powered then you wouldn't be able to charge at night, when it was cloudy. That would not we very convenient.
     
  12. hans

    hans P631

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,123
    Location:
    Menlo Park
    Agreed. I used a online solar PV system calculator to estimate the size of a system that could generate ~90KW, at peak, in California, and its about 9,500 sq-ft. This would only supercharge one car, and only at peak time of day. Given that many of the supercharger locations have 2 or 4 or perhaps more charging spots in the future, they would have to cover many more parking spots than just the ones reserved for supercharging if they wanted to power the whole system from solar. The same problem exists for the idea that the grid connection would be the same capacity for grid to charger as it is the other way from solar panels to grid.

    It is possible to cover the entire parking lot or the roofs on all the surrounding buildings but I don't think the plan is to do all that.
     
  13. jcstp

    jcstp Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,627
    Location:
    Belgium
    wasn't there mention that those superchargers would be connected to a battery?
    then they would not need high-power connection to the grid!
     
  14. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,389
    Location:
    Boston North Shore
    But since they already are in commercial establishments, particularly the service centers, they likely already have 3 phase power, a parking area, and a building so they're well on the way. A green field Supercharger installation has to start from scratch, buy or lease land, put in a new service, and construct the facility.

    It still seems to me that the marginal cost of adding one to an existing Tesla facility would be significantly less than building one from scratch.

    At a sales facility, I'd also think that potential customers seeing and talking to owners charging there would make them feel better and existing owners might wander through the showroom and think about another car or an upgrade.

    As far as completely solar powering a Supercharger, that would seriously not work in many areas of the country, e.g. New England. After the first few days of overcast weather with intermittent sleet I don't think there'd be much charging going on.
     
  15. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    9,734
    Location:
    Central New York
    There was talk of that, but so far none are, and it would raise the cost of the system.
     
  16. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2012
    Messages:
    4,279
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    The real problem is whether or not their copper is fat enough. A single supercharger will pull about as much power as 20-40 houses (wolfram alpha). 100kW is a TON of power to pull instantaneously. Most commercial places won't have thick enough copper.

    In fact you aren't going to bring in that much power on 480 3phase anyway it requires too much copper, you are going to bring in much higher voltage and step down near the supercharge units.
     
  17. dmckinstry

    dmckinstry Model S - U.S. P - #1649

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2011
    Messages:
    818
    Location:
    Medical Lake, WA (near Spokane)
    For that matter, I think it would be advantageous for all if one used the supercharger to the point where the charge rate dropped and then go to the HPC to top off while the supercharger would then be available for the next user.
     
  18. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    9,734
    Location:
    Central New York
    Pretty sure all high voltage lines use aluminum, not copper.
     
  19. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2008
    Messages:
    2,806
    Yep, aluminium wrapped steel lines.
     
  20. Babylonfive

    Babylonfive Power12

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    721
    Location:
    Cedar Park (Austin), Texas
    I'd like a response from someone with AC transmission/subtransmission knowledge, but I believe if they used intermediate feed voltage of 3-4kV, the current would be much lower, and this is a standard industrial feed voltage.
     

Share This Page