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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Bloomberg through Yahoo - today: Exxon Reveals Full Scope of Fuel Emissions for First Time

Excerpt:

The oil giant’s so-called Scope 3 emissions from petroleum-product sales were equivalent to 730 million metric tons of carbon dioxide in 2019, according to the company’s Energy and Carbon Summary released Tuesday. That’s about the same as the entire country of Canada and is the highest of all major Western oil companies.
 
Yeah, that's the 'positive feedback loop' where warming causes faster warming, leading to tipping points in the climate system. A stable climate is all about energy equilibrium between the Sun (heat source), the land, ocean, atmosphere, and space (heat sink).

The most critical tipping point is the loss of the Arctic sea ice cover, which will cause an albedo flip. Right now, white sea ice reflects 90% of incoming solar insolation back into space. After the first summertime 'blue ocean' event in the Arctic, that energy balance is flipped as 90% of the sun's incoming energy will be absorbed by the dark ocean water.

Almost nobody outside of climate science circles is aware that Arctic sea ice largely floats on top of a relatively shallow layer (~150m) of colder, fresher seawater. The deeper layers come from the Atlantic and they are much saltier (which is why they sink) but also much warmer (like +4C).

The first Arctic hurricane that mixes up this surface lens of fresh water with the warmer, saltier deep layer will prevent the surface from refreezing. This nearly happened during the Summer of 2012. There's enough heat at depth (~2000m layer) to last through about 4 Arctic winters without refreezing if the fresh water lens goes (read about vertical overturning currents and heat transfer in seawater). SURPRISE!

I you not, this is why I am a TSLA investor. I own no other equities, nor do I plan to diversify. Acheiving meaningful ACTION on human causes of climate change is the reason I choose to post here now, instead of at Neven's Arctic Sea Ice blog and forum (where I have 10 years of comment history).

This is VERY REAL. The Arctic albedo flip is a one-way tipping point for the climate, and even going to net NEGATIVE CO2 emissions will not flip it back once Winter sea ice goes.

We are mostly oblivious to the very real threat faced by civilization; the disruption of the equable climate with which we have prospered over the past 10 thousand years. Once the Wintertime Arctic sea ice cover goes, it's not coming back during this millenium, and the climate (especially in N. Europe) will be forever altered.

We are rolling the dice with the worl'd dumbest experiment by delaying the switch to renewable energy, all for the (short-term) financial benefit of some fossil fools.

Sad. Mad. Time for change. It's unstoppable now, but can not come soon enough. We must work to ACCELERATE that inevitable change, both to prevent and to minimize future damage caused by our past use of fossil fuels. That's why I support Elon and the Mission:

"Tesla's mission is to accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy."

Word.
Yes, I, too, invest in Tesla because I think it's best positioned to make a serious dent in climate change. IMHO climate change is at crisis level and is by far and away humanity's biggest problem.

I've been thinking about what to do with my TSLA gains, and I'm leaning towards buying a used Tesla or getting solar panels for family/friends each time my account goes up $150K or so. At this point, more money doesn't do me any good, so it's in my best interest to improve public health (in my mind, public health and the environment are just different sides of the same coin--they are inseparable).

I'm not very intelligent, and don't have the world-changing entrepreneurial gift that Musk has, so I figure I might as well give my money back to the company who is best at allocating capital to fight climate change. I made a joke a few days back about buying an X, but I know I won't, public health is more important, so I'd rather buy three M3s for the price of one X.
 
Interesting. I was thinking more about the Wash Sale rule. Every place I look on google, it says you can't sell a stock at a loss and buy the same stock back within 30 days. It doesn't say anything about BUYING at a loss (like buying back a covered call), and then selling a new, different CC for an expiration a year later with different strike (which I would argue is not at all the same as what was closed out originally anyway). Anyone a CPA with thoughts on the matter?
 
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Wait, stop right there, FSD valuation is definitely not priced in, how would you price it even before you know how much impact it would have on people’s lives? I personally expect it to be bigger than PC or Internet or smart phone.

What’s priced in is the perceived slim chance of it becoming true and Tesla is the leader.(which to me is a certainty just not sure when exactly)

Wait to see when FSD actually arrived, Elon keep saying it would be the single biggest asset appreciation event in history for a good reason.
If FSD isn't priced in, and energy clearly isn't priced in.....I'm not really clear on why we're worth 2x all the other carmakers combined. An exaggeration perhaps, but we're on our way. There's not really a lot of money to be made selling cars.

And FSD, as amazing as it's going to be, will likely have the same problem Tesla is running into with megapacks in Australia. It solved grid balancing so well, that the entities who used to pay gas peakers millions to do the job are balking at paying for servicing a problem that no longer exists. People here seem to overlay FSD on today's world, but the 2025 world will be quite different.

Regardless, that's my logic for being ok with a 2021 share sale at $1200/$1300. Valuation IMO will still be based on years out, but TSLA will soon be measured as something more than a pure growth play.

I'm entirely on board with "TSLA is going to the moon", I just think a long pause will be in order if we approach $1T any time soon. Hoping to sell none of my share and hold out for $10T in 2035, but OK if I can't hold onto them all. Hell, where do you think the cash will come from to short the entire fossil industry over the next 2-3 years?
 
This:
I got no problem selling 100 shares at $900, only sold 1 contract at that strike. Did this one "near strike" contract in lieu of selling any shares at inclusion "peak". Certainly no sillier than the many folks who sold $615 to $695 a couple weeks back.

Doesn't really jibe with this:

WTF is going on? Starting to get a tad worried my $900 Jan2022 calls may execute. I can deal with selling a few shares I guess!

Either you are worried about the call being executed, or you are happy about it. Which is it?

I'm curious about why you would sell a call so far out time wise, but yet so close strike wise. Is that because that is where you could get the amount of money you wanted/needed? Or do you really think that TSLA has topped out valuation wise?

Will you be as OK with it in two years when you have 100 shares removed from your account and replaced with $90k cash? (While TSLA might be valued at a conservative ~$1,600/share.) I guess it really depends on when you sold it and for how much...

And now you posted this:
Regardless, that's my logic for being ok with a 2021 share sale at $1200/$1300.

$1200-$1300 in a year is a whole different story than the $900 in two years that you said you sold are are getting worried about...
 
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This:


Doesn't really jibe with this:



Either you are worried about the call being executed, or you are happy about it. Which is it?

I'm curious about why you would sell a call so far out time wise, but yet so close strike wise. Is that because that is where you could get the amount of money you wanted/needed? Or do you really think that TSLA has topped out valuation wise?

Will you be as OK with it in two years when you have 100 shares removed from your account and replaced with $90k cash? (While TSLA might be valued at a conservative ~$1,600/share.) I guess it really depends on when you sold it and for how much...

And now you posted this:


$1200-$1300 in a year is a whole different story than the $900 in two years that you said you sold...
One can be a tad worried and ok at the same time. I was making a statement about the verticality of the move today so early in the year. You don't need to dissect it, there's really no point. Step down the caffeine intake and enjoy the enrichment!
 
If FSD isn't priced in, and energy clearly isn't priced in.....I'm not really clear on why we're worth 2x all the other carmakers combined. An exaggeration perhaps, but we're on our way. There's not really a lot of money to be made selling cars.

And FSD, as amazing as it's going to be, will likely have the same problem Tesla is running into with megapacks in Australia. It solved grid balancing so well, that the entities who used to pay gas peakers millions to do the job are balking at paying for servicing a problem that no longer exists. People here seem to overlay FSD on today's world, but the 2025 world will be quite different.

Regardless, that's my logic for being ok with a 2021 share sale at $1200/$1300. Valuation IMO will still be based on years out, but TSLA will soon be measured as something more than a pure growth play.

I'm entirely on board with "TSLA is going to the moon", I just think a long pause will be in order if we approach $1T any time soon. Hoping to sell none of my share and hold out for $10T in 2035, but OK if I can't hold onto them all. Hell, where do you think the cash will come from to short the entire fossil industry over the next 2-3 years?

Hey some FSD revenue is priced in, the part that generates revenue. But none of that robotaxi revenue is priced in.

The valuation comes from margins. If GM continue to increase to 30%+ then you don't need the other stuff because these are high ticket items in the beginning phase of growth. Tesla can potentially double their revenue by this time next year while increasing gm due to economy of scale and higher FSD take rate+recognition. Before you know it they will be generating 30 billion/quarter with GM at 35% in 2 years time (from auto only). Apple is a 2.2 trillion dollar company that also sells hardware at 35% gm and makes 26 billion a quarter from such sales. It's 44% of Apple's total revenue...so the other revenue at 60% margins service revenue gives them the other 1.5 T valuation if we count their cell phone revenue being worth 700 billion. All of a sudden Tesla is not that overvalued.

You need to look at other sectors(and stop looking at auto makers) to compare their valuation/revenue/margins. Automakers make trash margins therefore they get trash valuation.
 
It makes total sense that snakes and lizards want global warming to continue. They’re cold blooded and thrive in warm climates. I wouldn’t be surprised if big oil and big reptile are working together to stop Tesla.

Hey, big reptiles are just small dinosaurs, right? They have a lot in common with big oil, being from the same geologic neighborhood and all.
 
Hey, big reptiles are just small dinosaurs, right? They have a lot in common with big oil, being from the same geologic neighborhood and all.
Birds are small dinosaurs. Reptiles are totally different..perhaps closer related to most people's ex-spouses' than dinosaurs.

~~~Mod-edited instead of deleting outright~~~
 
Hey some FSD revenue is priced in, the part that generates revenue. But none of that robotaxi revenue is priced in.

The valuation comes from margins. If GM continue to increase to 30%+ then you don't need the other stuff because these are high ticket items in the beginning phase of growth. Tesla can potentially double their revenue by this time next year while increasing gm due to economy of scale and higher FSD take rate+recognition. Before you know it they will be generating 30 billion/quarter with GM at 35% in 2 years time (from auto only). Apple is a 2.2 trillion dollar company that also sells hardware at 35% gm and makes 26 billion a quarter from such sales. It's 44% of Apple's total revenue...so the other revenue at 60% margins service revenue gives them the other 1.5 T valuation if we count their cell phone revenue being worth 700 billion. All of a sudden Tesla is not that overvalued.

You need to look at other sectors(and stop looking at auto makers) to compare their valuation/revenue/margins. Automakers make trash margins therefore they get trash valuation.

So much this. Margins are why I’m all in. Nobody has any idea yet, and Q4 earnings are going to give the first big clue to the clueless. Morgan Stanley just had an “aha” moment, so good for them. (And if that quoted phrase triggers you, relief below). They raised their few-months old target by 50%, ffs.

That being said, it’s hard to justify a $2T valuation right now, so don’t go buying June 1200 calls you hoodlums...but $1T this by the end of this year seems almost a certainty.

My $765 short calls are gonna be getting spicy tomorrow. I can’t wait :D

 
I was thinking about Dojo and the Tesla with Lidar and had a thought to run by everyone. Dojo will be all about Vision since that's what Tesla works with. Well..... Vision, Radar and ultra sonics. One day the others are going to have to include vision IMO to ever catch up and get a true level 5 system. They will not have real world vision data to train with. If Tesla puts Lidar points into Dojo tagged onto Vision wouldn't this mean the others can use Tesla's vision data with Lidar reference points to train their systems? That might be a very lucrative thing to rent out.
 
A Democrat sweep is obviously hated by the market as the QQQs continue to slide.

But, will it mean even more rocket fuel for TSLA and the renewable economy stocks?

Could we see the market take a dive, while the likes of TSLA and SEDG continue to grind higher?

Would be somewhat unprecedented I think.

Perhaps wishful thinking, but works for me.
 
NY Times needle on GA Senate races pointing towards likelihood of split 50-50 Senate, meaning Biden would be able to pass climate legislation. Fingers crossed for Tesla becoming eligible for $7,500 tax credit again.

upload_2021-1-5_23-4-51.png
 
I was thinking about Dojo and the Tesla with Lidar and had a thought to run by everyone. Dojo will be all about Vision since that's what Tesla works with. Well..... Vision, Radar and ultra sonics. One day the others are going to have to include vision IMO to ever catch up and get a true level 5 system. They will not have real world vision data to train with. If Tesla puts Lidar points into Dojo tagged onto Vision wouldn't this mean the others can use Tesla's vision data with Lidar reference points to train their systems? That might be a very lucrative thing to rent out.



You seem to be under the mistaken impression that folks working on this using lidar don't also use cameras and vision- that is not the case.

They use lidar in addition to radar and vision and ultrasonic because they think it's better/safer/easier.


Tesla believes it's utterly unneeded and only uses 3 out of the 4.

Their premise is if you actually solve vision lidar doesn't add any value.

They've also got a lot MORE vision data simply by having a vastly larger fleet driving vastly more miles.

But AFAIK everybody working on this uses cameras and vision.




NY Times needle on GA Senate races pointing towards likelihood of split 50-50 Senate, meaning Biden would be able to pass climate legislation. Fingers crossed for Tesla becoming eligible for $7,500 tax credit again.

View attachment 624788



I think we should temper the expectation on what climate legislation gets passed...

I don't expect Joe Manchin, the "democratic" senator from WVa, and a dude who is gonna become a LOT more powerful if the GOP loses both GA seats as it's looking, is gonna vote for a green new deal or anything like it.... his state still makes >90% of their power from coal.

But yeah more EV tax credits, especially if biased toward US car makers, might be something he'd vote for... (IIRC he supported a thing about securing supply chain for the US ev industry a year or two back though I don't think the bill went anywhere)
 
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NY Times needle on GA Senate races pointing towards likelihood of split 50-50 Senate, meaning Biden would be able to pass climate legislation. Fingers crossed for Tesla becoming eligible for $7,500 tax credit again.

View attachment 624788
Reminder - Cloture to end Senate debate on legislation takes 60 votes, which the D's will not have. 50 votes plus Harris means Biden will be able to get approval for appointments and the D's can control the order of business and chair the committees and hold hearings, all valuable but not enough to pass legislation.
 
Reminder - Cloture to end Senate debate on legislation takes 60 votes, which the D's will not have. 50 votes plus Harris means Biden will be able to get approval for appointments and the D's can control the order of business and chair the committees and hold hearings, all valuable but not enough to pass legislation.


FWIW we should remember- they can pass with 50 votes via reconciliation.

Both bush tax cuts, the ACA, the Trump tax cuts, and more have all passed with less than 60 senate votes that way.... certainly not every single thing they wanna do, but usually at least one pretty major group of stuff each time (in theory they can do this 3 times a year, in practice it's not done more than once a year except 1997 when it was used twice)

The fact they need Manchin for that 50th vote still keeps some of the more... aggressive... climate change stuff off the table though.
 
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Warnock is clearly going to beat Loeffler. Ossoff will likely finish ahead of Perdue.

Dems' grip on the Senate will be tenuous and their most centrist members will have outsized influence.

EDIT: Of the Dems up for reelection in 2022, only Michael Bennet of Colorado would remotely qualify as a "moderate". He, along with Joe Manchin of W. Virginia, will have a big say in issues that affect Tesla. Most of us living in the U.S. should be familiar with Manchin's ties with the coal industry.

EDIT 2: Tech futures are getting body slammed right now (-1.44%).
 
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