Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Artful Dodger]

Ford hadn’t a clue of this when they wouldn’t part with “Model E” 4+ years ago. I suspect they used it now simply because Tesla wanted it, it MUST be a good choice for our EV division! It’s a far better name for a car model than a company division IMO since the word model implies model not division!

Ford's Bold Reorg Plans Show Its EV Ambitions

Ford announces bold plans to reorganize its operations. The auto maker wants to make sure its legacy auto business doesn't get in the way of EV growth.

www.barrons.com

Yes, this truly shows how disorganised and improvized that Ford's plan truly is. Do you remember "Blue Oval City"? That was going to be Ford's big EV Campus where all the new hotness would happen.

So no what? "Ford Blue" isn't part of "Blue Oval City"? Or is it now going to be the "Model E Corral"? Did any of these people go to Business school? Or even Grammar school?!

"Ford Blows".

 

[AKAlex]

That's true, but people like to have it both ways. We can't claim that Ford has such a legacy of gas car expertise, and then also claim that they don't have the baggage associated with that legacy.

I think the idea behind this split is that some of that baggage (Uninnovative MBA managers, Unions, Dealerships) can be shed, while some of the applicable knowledge and capital can be transferred to a leaner organization. Whether this will work or not... Who knows? However, we should remember that some legacy automotive will survive the transition. This reorganization seems to bode well for Ford's chances to be in the survivors group.

 

[Drax7]

I think the idea behind this split is that some of that baggage (Uninnovative MBA managers, Unions, Dealerships) can be shed, while some of the applicable knowledge and capital can be transferred to a leaner organization. Whether this will work or not... Who knows? However, we should remember that some legacy automotive will survive the transition. This reorganization seems to bode well for Ford's chances to be in the survivors group.

It seems more like smoke and mirrors.
Ice manufacturing will be a stranded asset,
while EV manufacturing requires positive margins
achieved only through scale.
Unless EV margins exceed
And offset ICE margins , the totality of the
separation does not amount to a bag of beans.

 

[AudubonB]

I received an off-thread query as to why I seemed to have a bee in my bonnet regarding references to Ford Foundation. It's a good question, as there are several answers.

First, conflating FF with FoMoCo makes as much sense as disparaging the Nobel Awards Committee for playing with dynamite. Looking through Winterthur for napalm. Taking the Rockefeller Foundation to task for ExxonMobil's sins. Refusing to use a public library because it might be one of the more than 2,500 that Carnegie, whose mills polluted western Pennsylvania's waters and blackened its skies, built. Dismissing Sesame Street...or Mr Roger's Neighborhood...because they were enabled by the FF having founded NETC (later PBS)..

Second, FF has NOTHING to do with Ford Motor. And I was more than surprised when an earlier poster corrected me by saying there was no Ford on its BoD, as I remember well the huge kerfuffle when, disparaging the Foundation's more liberal actions than he felt appropriate, H 2-Sticks departed the Board in 1976. So I looked it up and learned that H 3-Sticks was elected in 2019 - the first Ford family member there in 43 years. The entire reason Ford Motor is a public company is that FF sold 100% of its immense holdings - all private shares - in the 1950s and 60s (at each sale tranche, they automatically changed from Class A to Class B and became public shares).

Third, because by posting such nonsense you diminish this thread and every time garbage is posted here, this thread becomes that much less distinguishable from the truly venal outlets who regularly publish half-truths and outright lies. Not on my watch. Not in my thread.

 

[jhm]

I have this fantasy wherein Ukraine kicks Putin's butt, builds a Tesla Gigafactory, and cranks out EVs and batteries at a pace fast enough to never be harassed again by Russia. I see in the people and their leader and ability to work like hell to defend and rebuild their country. They can definitely move at Musk speed to get things done.

I'm sure y'all can poke holes at this, but it's my fantasy. I'd like to see a Giga Ukraine producing cars by mid-2023.

 

[jerry33]

I say put the extra range pack in the trailer!

Edit: * or on the trailer

You really don't want to do this. The trailer needs to be as light as possible (and still have all the goodies) because free rolling axles (e.g. trailer axles) have more rolling resistance than drive axles (e.g. vehicle axles). There are other reasons as well, such as having a battery that needs to be maintained during the months you don't use it.

 

[Tyler34]

Weird weakness in TSLA today. I don't understand it, but I appreciate the opportunity to exit my $900 covered calls expiring on Friday.

It feels like the sector getting hammered because of rivian. *shrug

 

[TheTalkingMule]

You really don't want to do this. The trailer needs to be as light as possible (and still have all the goodies) because free rolling axles (e.g. trailer axles) have more rolling resistance than drive axles (e.g. vehicle axles). There are other reasons as well, such as having a battery that needs to be maintained during the months you don't use it.

Obviously you'll just take 2 or 3 of the 4 portable modules out of your 25kwh Powerwall in the basement. Clip them into your trailer and.....boom! Extra range. Put em back when you get home.

 

[Sancho]

The weakness today in TSLA is following a very familiar pattern when the markets generally are green, QQQ is green, the Russell 2000 is green, etc, but the ARK funds are deep red.

So my question for those who follow the markets closer than I do: is this a focused attack on the ARK portfolio companies (including TSLA) or is there some broader basket of innovation stocks that are all being attacked at the same time? Clearly it's not as broad as QQQ or Russell or high tech, etc. And it's not nearly as sector related as it is ARK related.

 

[woodisgood]

The weakness today in TSLA is following a very familiar pattern when the markets generally are green, QQQ is green, the Russell 2000 is green, etc, but the ARK funds are deep red.

So my question for those who follow the markets closer than I do: is this a focused attack on the ARK portfolio companies (including TSLA) or is there some broader basket of innovation stocks that are all being attacked at the same time? Clearly it's not as broad as QQQ or Russell or high tech, etc. And it's not nearly as sector related as it is ARK related.

The basket is green energy/solar. All weak today presumably due to two days of strength. TSLA doing ok relative to that basket.

 

[Ogre]

It seems more like smoke and mirrors.
Ice manufacturing will be a stranded asset,
while EV manufacturing requires positive margins
achieved only through scale.
Unless EV margins exceed
And offset ICE margins , the totality of the
separation does not amount to a bag of beans.

This reorg, or something similar might well be an elaborate way of putting lipstick on a pig. But something very much like it is what Ford would need to do in order to get their EV business working correctly.

Farley pointed out that they can’t turn their ICE business into the next Tesla. So he’s apparently trying to build a little mini-Tesla inside of Ford.

It’s fine to be cynical. I am. There is a huge chance this is disingenuous or will simply fail. But it is very likely the only way they could make this work.

When you are dealt a hand like Farley was dealt, there aren’t a ton of options. Look at what happened to Nokia and Motorola when they tried to turn the whole ship.

 

[MountainRatMat]

Ross does not deserve attention in this thread. Nothing he says can be trusted.

I don't agree with that statement at all. Ross is a Tesla fanboy for sure so take that with a grain of salt because he can be one-sided. The big reason I say that I don't agree with the statement is because he has built a multi-billion dollar business. I know money isn't everything but he has built a successful business and his opinions do count...even if they are wrong.

As for his recent tweet...I'm confused.

 

[M|S|M MYP]

I don't agree with that statement at all. Ross is a Tesla fanboy for sure so take that with a grain of salt because he can be one-sided. The big reason I say that I don't agree with the statement is because he has built a multi-billion dollar business. I know money isn't everything but he has built a successful business and his opinions do count...even if they are wrong.

As for his recent tweet...I'm confused

Multi-Billions? Maybe a billion dollars AUM, but lets not forget the fact that he took a PPP loan.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

This reorg, or something similar might well be an elaborate way of putting lipstick on a pig. But something very much like it is what Ford would need to do in order to get their EV business working correctly.

Farley pointed out that they can’t turn their ICE business into the next Tesla. So he’s apparently trying to build a little mini-Tesla inside of Ford.

It’s fine to be cynical. I am. There is a huge chance this is disingenuous or will simply fail. But it is very likely the only way they could make this work.

When you are dealt a hand like Farley was dealt, there aren’t a ton of options. Look at what happened to Nokia and Motorola when they tried to turn the whole ship.

Well, Nokia hired a CEO who thought that trying to innovate was a mistake, and making Windows Phones would be a much better idea.

 

[BrownOuttaSpec]

Did..... did they.... just... do it again?!? First GM turns their new logo into the word 'Elon', and now Ford names their new EV business to spell 'Elon' backwards! This is one heck of a simulation we're living in!

 

[Featsbeyond50]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1499053785150201858

I have zero clue what Ross is talking about here. It makes little to no sense for Tesla to be reaching out about taking delivery of the Austin-made Y when the Y is sold out for the year.

This part especially makes no sense " It has the new AMD chip and they are marketing it as in house made tesla designed battery pack with the new cells. - they are claiming this is a substantial improvement! "

So either Ross is completely full of it or there is a new trim version of the Y coming that is only for Austin-made Y's. Because there's no way they could guarantee someone would be getting a Austin-Y verses a Fremont-Y since Austin has only just begun production.

The only thing I can come up with that makes sense is they are looking to build their used inventory faster to build up a robo fleet. From my understanding on the status of FSD, it's way too early to be doing that...

 

[Skryll]

Did..... did they.... just... do it again?!? First GM turns their new logo into the word 'Elon', and now Ford names their new EV business to spell 'Elon' backwards! This is one heck of a simulation we're living in!

View attachment 775788

leMon?

 

[bballshinobi]

I don't agree with that statement at all. Ross is a Tesla fanboy for sure so take that with a grain of salt because he can be one-sided. The big reason I say that I don't agree with the statement is because he has built a multi-billion dollar business. I know money isn't everything but he has built a successful business and his opinions do count...even if they are wrong.

As for his recent tweet...I'm confused.

Jumping in on Ross Gerbert: if you watched his interview with Dave Lee you will lose a lot of respect for him. He's always seemed more of a cheerleader type unlike Gary Black so my opinion of him was more neutral than positive. He lost all credibility to me when he talked about Palantir in that interview when he criticized its business model. The problem wasn't his opinion of Palantir's business model, but that he didn't know what it is, made up what it is based on probably urban legends he read on twitter, then criticized it. Very distasteful and ignorant.

 

[Featsbeyond50]

Did..... did they.... just... do it again?!? First GM turns their new logo into the word 'Elon', and now Ford names their new EV business to spell 'Elon' backwards! This is one heck of a simulation we're living in!

View attachment 775788

I'm LOLing, but honestly, at how hard you are stretching to make this. Make no mistake though, I like it.

 

[Sancho]

The basket is green energy/solar. All weak today presumably due to two days of strength. TSLA doing ok relative to that basket.

I don't think that's it. The stocks I have that are doing badly today have nothing to do with green energy and everything to do with ARK holdings.

Edit 30 minutes later: now TSLA has gone green, and its positive trajectory is mirroring the positive trajectory of the ARK funds.

I've felt for awhile now that there is a loosely concerted effort to short all ARK portfolio companies, and TSLA is caught in the middle of that effort.