Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[petit_bateau]

Ah San Francisco. A lot of people there with hatred for no reason, not just Tesla.

No, not just SF. Amongst a cohort of European teenagers that I know Musk is not liked, and by association they dislike Tesla. Has been this way for 3-4 years unfortunately in some segments. They really get triggered by his right wing libertarian stuff.

(The next thing the FUDsters will bleat about is Musk being distracted by whoever is the next girlfriend acquisition. I hesitate to use the acronym GF for obvious reasons.)

 

[feigen66]

Ah San Francisco. A lot of people there with hatred for no reason, not just Tesla.

@TheTalkingMule have you ever lived in San Francisco before you disagree? I live there, at inner Sunset. Used to be a beautiful city but now it's barely walkable without stepping on needles or getting robbed.

I brought my kid to Science of Academy Museum on Mother's Day, a van was broken in front of us at bright daylight. No one ever blinked an eye.

Many people are suffering, especially the Asian communities. It's sad. Our neighbor got shot at his driveway without justice being answeed. So stop taking the criticism of left wing as right wing. Over majority of SF residents are life-long Democrats, me included.

 

[feigen66]

No, not just SF. Amongst a cohort of European teenagers that I know Musk is not liked, and by association they dislike Tesla. Has been this way for 3-4 years unfortunately in some segments. They really get triggered by his right wing libertarian stuff.

(The next thing the FUDsters will bleat about is Musk being distracted by whoever is the next girlfriend acquisition. I hesitate to use the acronym GF for obvious reasons.)

Maybe those European teenagers should risk their life to help Ukraine.

Nothing more hypocrite to live in a peaceful city to hate someone who against Putin's aggression as "right-wing libertarian". Maybe they need to look up the dictionary first.

 

[MartinAustin]

his right wing libertarian stuff

He said he is a socialist in another tweet. I think it's pretty hard, in fact pointless, counterproductive, even, to try to pidgeonhole Elon Musk.

While I'm here: I believe he can run all these companies. Without any problems. Each one of them has leaderships that can operate without Elon around. cf. Kirk+Drew et. al

But I still think the stock will fall a bit more this week. The stock market and the attendant fudsters haven't realised what I already know. Dip buying time...

 

[petit_bateau]

Maybe those European teenagers should risk their life to help Ukraine.

Nothing more hypocrite to live in a peaceful city to hate someone who against Putin's aggression as "right-wing libertarian". Maybe they need to look up the dictionary first.

It was like this before the invasion of Ukraine. I am reporting on the view they have formed over 4-5 years, in part of that population segment, like it or not. The point being that there is a range of views out there around all of the world re Musk and by association Tesla, and not all of those are positive. When I have questioned those teenagers the responses I get suggest that it is a combination of Musk's (that subset of his views & statements) very right wing / libertarian utterances that trigger them, plus the association they have formed of Teslas = rich people greenwashing their polluting consciences with status toys.

You or I may not like or agree with the view of this segment, but it would be unwise to ignore its existence. Personally I understand why Tesla is prioritising the CT to win over the flyover states and mindsets, but I also think that Tesla would be wise to fast follow it with a 2/Z to address that element of their critique. With respect to Musk's own personal political views there is no way he will pay any attention to any attempts to consider his utterances more thoughtfully, and no he is not always playing 4d chess. So Tesla simply has to take the bad with the good in that respect.

(Some of those teenagers are now older, and doing their bit to support Ukraine, but that is not at all relevant to the debate, and is a wholly uncalled for attack on them.)

 

[John8864]

This makes me really nervous as an investor, anybody else feel the same?

Yes, me too. Uncertainty comes at a bad timing. In case Elon experience any “accidents” no matter what’s the result, TSLA share will down 10% at least. I’m going to cut some of my TSLA shares I hold for almost 3 years.

 

[-=buzz=-]

No, not just SF. Amongst a cohort of European teenagers that I know Musk is not liked, and by association they dislike Tesla. Has been this way for 3-4 years unfortunately in some segments. They really get triggered by his right wing libertarian stuff.

(The next thing the FUDsters will bleat about is Musk being distracted by whoever is the next girlfriend acquisition. I hesitate to use the acronym GF for obvious reasons.)

But that's mostly caused by slanted reports in the media, not an actual change in his behavior.

He wants to fix twitter and ensure free speech --> he'll bring back Trump! He's a Trumper!
No elaboration io the fixing part, making reasonable discussion of opposing positions possible in the first place.

It all comes back to paying (advertising) for the good views on your actions...

 

[Ogre]

I get this idea by paying attention to the world at large. C’mon, the President of our country refused to even speak the company’s name.

I know all this stuff that you detail. Have for a long time. I am very encouraged by the young people who are clamoring to work for Tesla and SpaceX and it is the main reason I believe that Tesla will win and that we have a great future ahead beginning now.

Politicians say and do things with a purpose. Having that stance for a while served a purpose. I’m not super interested in chasing that topic here, but what a politician says is usually more about achieving a goal rather than a personal conviction.

Tesla is a massive disrupter. Some of the biggest industries in the world are threatened by Tesla. Energy, Oil, Automotive, Transportation… that’s a huge field of players worried about their future. Then there are piles of secondary industries which are impacted. Auto magazines losing advertising revenue. Auto parts companies. Hell… mechanics.

People in general don’t hate Tesla. There are a few people with a lot of money who have a vested interest in Tesla failing. There is a huge difference.

People want Tesla cars. People want to work for Tesla. Not just a few. It is a massively popular brand. Lots of municipalities absolutely love the opportunities Tesla’s energy products open up for them.

 

[Dave EV]

No, not just SF. Amongst a cohort of European teenagers that I know Musk is not liked, and by association they dislike Tesla. Has been this way for 3-4 years unfortunately in some segments. They really get triggered by his right wing libertarian stuff.

(The next thing the FUDsters will bleat about is Musk being distracted by whoever is the next girlfriend acquisition. I hesitate to use the acronym GF for obvious reasons.)

There's a phenomenal podcast (I can't recall where I saw it originally, it was either posted here on one of the Elon Musk threads or on Twitter) on company branding and how it relates people to companies, and explains how building a successful brand results in a huge amount of product loyalty (bear with me, this does tie into $TSLA and turning Tesla into the world-dominating Juggernaut we all know it should be)

Podcast links:

Our Brands, Our Selves | Hidden Brain Media

All of us are surrounded by brands. Designer brands. Bargain-shopper brands. Brands for seemingly every demographic slice among us. But have you ever stopped

hiddenbrain.org

Transcript (I recommend listening above rather than trying to read the transcript, personally, but in case you can't listen):

I Buy, Therefore I Am

All of us are surrounded by brands. Designer brands. Bargain-shopper brands. Brands for seemingly every demographic slice among us. But have you ever stopped to ask yourself how brands influence you? This week, we look at how companies create a worldview around the products they sell, and then...

www.npr.org

Done properly, branding gets you a huge and extremely loyal buy-in from a large percentage of the market. A well branded product gets people to personally identify with your company and they turn into free ambassadors for your company - more free marketing!

Do it wrong, and you alienate your existing customer base by triggering negative associations in a large percentage of your potential market - people who won't touch the product with a 10 ft pole.

Two relevant examples:

Apple - there are tons of huge Apple fans - fans that will stand in lines, camping out for the latest product (sound familiar?), fans that will buy every single product in history. Almost everyone wants to look like the smart tech savvy purchases who uses premium products. And it's paid off - look at how successful Apple is. It's hard to say anything bad about Apple as a brand.

Lance Armstrong - Lance was huge - came back after beating cancer against all odds, a fighter. Everyone wore a yellow wristband and cheered him on. After getting exposed for cheating? Lance Armstrong as a brand is basically dead and a shell of it's former self. It's biggest supporters were personally betrayed and lost forever.

How does this relate to Tesla?

Tesla has built a successful brand, but without most of the typical marketing efforts that go into branding. On one hand, Tesla has turned itself into the "Apple of the automotive world" by creating a highly desired, premium product that peopled camped out overnight just to order - the Model 3. People are waiting in virtual lines to get a Cybertruck, same as what people would do for the latest iPhone. Other Tesla fans travel the country to every product announcement event.

Tesla has a huge number of extremely loyal fans who will defend the brand to any degree and who eagerly buy the latest and greatest Tesla when it comes out.

Tesla also has it's own person as a face of the company (like Lance Armstrong) - Elon Musk. Elon represents a huge part of Tesla's brand - for better or worse.

That close association of Elon to Tesla is also what makes Elon's ventures into political hot-topics problematic. Elon, as the face of Tesla, risks alienating a significant portion of Tesla's fan-base by publicly taking sides of political hot-topics. You simply aren't going to change people's minds on these topics - and taking sides will alienate significant portions of your market audience. As such a significant part of Tesla's brand, any mis-step that Elon takes will potentially result in a a personal betrayal of it's fans. We saw it with the whole "pedo guy" cave diver incident, COVID-related drama, dumb Twitter wars w/politicians and now the latest Twitter acquisition drama.

Why should you care as an investor in $TSLA?

I think we all believe that Tesla has a terrific product roadmap and is doing great to produce S3XY products that are helping to solve one of the world's most pressing problems. And as such, we also believe that the potential market cap of Tesla far exceeds it's currently value.

But while currently Tesla's demand far out-strips supply and alienating parts of it's potential customer base will have no effect on revenues for some time - at some point Tesla will scale production up enough to meet demand - and when it does, it will want a brand that as many people as possible identify with. To do that, Elon will eventually need to stop pushing political hot-buttons or Tesla will need to figure out how to dis-associate Elon from the Tesla brand, while replacing Elon with some other sort of brand loyalty value.

 

[Ogre]

Lance Armstrong - Lance was huge - came back after beating cancer against all odds, a fighter. Everyone wore a yellow wristband and cheered him on. After getting exposed for cheating? Lance Armstrong as a brand is basically dead and a shell of it's former self. It's biggest supporters were personally betrayed and lost forever.

This is actually not entirely true.

Armstrong still has a sizable fan base and makes a lot of money off of his personality and personal brand. He is very likely still one of the most influential cyclists in the US in spite of his fall from grace. He puts on a race series, has a clothing line, and a hugely successful podcast.

He’s not the iconic media darling he used to be, but then how many cycling pros are in America?

PS: I am not one of Armstong’s fans, just find him interesting.

 

[Papafox]

Regarding Elon's Tweet and "good to know ya",
Haven't the Russians read this The Atlantic article which clearly explained why sending Starlink to Ukraine was of no value to Ukraine and merely a way for an egotistical billionaire to draw attention to himself? /s

One potentially positive effect from Elon's Tweet is that he's acknowledging that there's risk to him with Russia so angry with him. By expressing concern, he defuses the situation somewhat because Russia would look really bad now if something happened to Elon in the near future. Acknowledging his own mortality is an expression of humility, which is not a bad thing to do if you're a genius entrepreneur and the wealthiest man in the free world.

 

[Dave EV]

Politicians say and do things with a purpose. Having that stance for a while served a purpose. I’m not super interested in chasing that topic here, but what a politician says is usually more about achieving a goal rather than a personal conviction.

Yep, agreed - they do it to "fire up their base" or do anything that they think will get them more votes.

I highly disagree with some of the left's tactics of using Elon as a political punching bag, but instead of snarky retorts, I think he would do much better to simply ignore them. His voice on Twitter is much louder than theirs, so by responding, he only amplifies their message.

This is actually not entirely true.

Armstrong still has a sizable fan base and makes a lot of money off of his personality and personal brand. He is very likely still one of the most influential cyclists in the US in spite of his fall from grace. He puts on a race series, has a clothing line, and a hugely successful podcast.

He’s not the iconic media darling he used to be, but then how many cycling pros are in America?

PS: I am not one of Armstong’s fans, just find him interesting.

Yes, Lance has bounced back from the lows to some degree - he did this by owning up to his mistakes and given how prevalent doping was (is?) in cycling, I think that gave him a decent amount of slack. But there's no doubt that he inflicted irreparable harm to his brand.

Back on-topic - I do think that some additional work on Tesla the brand would be good for Tesla (and $TSLA) in the long term.

 

[spacerfc]

Apple - there are tons of huge Apple fans - fans that will stand in lines, camping out for the latest product (sound familiar?), fans that will buy every single product in history. Almost everyone wants to look like the smart tech savvy purchases who uses premium products. And it's paid off - look at how successful Apple is. It's hard to say anything bad about Apple as a brand.

Well since we're talking about Apple and branding, it should also be noted that there're a lot of hatred towards Apple brand as well. In fact there's even some statistics behind this (granted with a fairly small sample size), which shows Apple is the most hated brand at 12%, ahead of Walmart at 9%:

Why do people hate Apple?

Hating on Apple is a common thing these days but what makes people dislike the company so much? Turns out, reasons are easy to come by, check inside!

www.phonearena.com

This shows a dedicated hater base won't prevent a company from becoming the most valuable company in the world, in fact it may require it, since one of the reasons given for Apple hatred is "people tend to hate those at the top".

 

[Snerruc]

I see your point. But demographics are definitely at play here.

If I may be simplistic: Old people that own a lot of stuff and no TSLA would prefer that Tesla died. Young people that dream of Mars and a future of renewables love Tesla. So it is hated and loved. A company of extremes if you will.

The global power structure is currently run by the aforementioned old people.

BTW, the oil interests that run a large part of the world have had no problem starting wars in the past for no reason other than raising the price of oil for a while. Don’t think they would hesitate to dispatch a particular person if it behooved them. They have a lot of company in other entrenched rent seeking industries that Tesla also threatens.

Being one of those old people, I resent this remark. There are a lot of us on this thread. We all own Tesla and Teslas.

 

[Maarten]

View attachment 801957

Maxes out at ~85 kW and drops below 50 kW at 50% SOC. His suggestion was basically that it's a solid city-car... personally if I wanted a city car I'd get a used BMW i3 for half the cost.

Source:

OK, this is what the new electric Toyota has to offer?
That is roughly how my 2013 P85 is charging after more than 320.000 km; for the rest still practically driving like brand new.
Toyota is lagging Tesla by almost 10 years.
Must by now be a harsh awakening from their comfort zone.

 

[Artful Dodger]

There’s been more snippiness in this thread recently.

We’re all under unusual stress these day, whether it’s economic or social. Let’s try to write the best posts we can, and read each others’ posts as charitably as possible.

Oh, and if at all possible: hold.

↑ ... above from Apr 3, 2020.



Cheers to the Longs!

 

[UkNorthampton]

UK: Picture in tweet of a community street/destination charge network. Obviously AC vs DC equipment costs will be different but I wondered if it may be useful in estimating Tesla network costs. I haven't previously seen any similar info. 48p/kWh is non-member rates. Member rates are TBA (to be announced) - presumably as wholesale electricity prices are changing

https://twitter.com/chargemystreet/status/1523605069173862400

 

[Baumisch]

another day of red -

 

[Electroman]

Musk to speak at 6 pm UK time.

Future of the Car Summit | 7-9 May 2024, London | FT Live

Explore future of automotive industry at Future of the Car Summit 2024, 7-9 May 2024, in London. Register for the event either virtually or in person.

car.live.ft.com

I bet there is nothing that we have not heard so far

 

[traxila]

Being one of those old people, I resent this remark. There are a lot of us on this thread. We all own Tesla and Teslas.

Right.

OK, so my statements that Tesla is a hated company and people want Elon to fail are specifically directed at people on this forum. /s

You are reacting the way the NYT expected people to react by pointing out that Elon grew up in South Africa. Obviously Elon and all white people from SA are terminally racist and white supremacists.

I am done with this guys. If you all want to believe that the global power infrastructure loves Tesla and is rooting for it, please do.

All the best!