Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[chronopublish]

I’ve been following this thread (and its predecessors) since the Stone Age. Not wanting to place myself in an echo chamber, I’ve resisted putting anyone on ignore, even obvious trolls.

Until the last few weeks, during which I’ve added half a dozen to my ignore list. This is by far the worst signal/noise ratio I’ve ever witnessed here.

It’s incredibly obvious which accounts are posting in bad faith. I’m amazed anyone still replies to them.

I voted my IPO shares in favor of ratifying Elon’s payment plan, and in favor of all the other board recommendations. Elon & the board have earned my trust with their incredible performances. Those voting no have lost perspective, in my opinion.

 

[jabloomf1230]

I’ve been following this thread (and its predecessors) since the Stone Age. Not wanting to place myself in an echo chamber, I’ve resisted putting anyone on ignore, even obvious trolls.

Until the last few weeks, during which I’ve added half a dozen to my ignore list. This is by far the worst signal/noise ratio I’ve ever witnessed here.

It’s incredibly obvious which accounts are posting in bad faith. I’m amazed anyone still replies to them.

I voted my IPO shares in favor of ratifying Elon’s payment plan, and in favor of all the other board recommendations. Elon & the board have earned my trust with their incredible performances. Those voting no have lost perspective, in my opinion.

I think the perspective of the no voters is that they want Elon to stop saying controversial things on X and just run his companies, especially Tesla. I voted yes, but a sizable no vote might send a message to Elon to tone down his rhetoric. Nah, probably not.

 

[Dutchie]

Which is why I strongly believe Elon will definitely NOT leave. Think of it from his POV:

• Leaving will mean he isn't CEO when Cybertruck sales really take off, and allow him to demonstrate he was right, over all the people who hated the CT and predicted it to be a failure
• Leaving will mean he does voluntarily what he was forced to do at paypal, which drove him crazy literally for decades. Makes no sense!
• Leaving before FSD is an acknowledged reality. Again, he wants to be there when people are forced to acknowledge he was (eventually) right about FSD.

If the vote is against him, I expect some (rightly) very angry tweets, and some very very long term grudges held against banks or hedge funds that turned against him. I also think its then an absolute dead-cert that no part of any elon business ever floats on the markets again.
But leave the company? I think this is massively unlikely. However, there may be a short term SP drop, mostly manipulated, and fuelled by BS in the media or from people who do not know elon's temperament or his history regarding paypal.

Exactly. He hinted as much. It looks like the retail investors will overwhelmingly vote to rectify the package. If it doesn't go through it is because of the institutional investors. Elon cares about the retail investors and not so much about the big guys. If we retail investors will back him he will back us.

 

[AudubonB]

A little personal, non-Mod, comment here:

Thick-skulled as I may be…or not…it is dawning on me that some consider me, at the kindest, some sort of skewball for voting no on a sensitive topic. A few points, all of which I freely admit are in an attempt NOT for you to agree with my vote, but which could alter your opinion of me.

• I strongly agree with those who believe anyone who voted for the stock incentive award in 2018 is morally bound to do so again now. I did not, and just as I did not vote for ____X____ for US President in Nov. _____, but that enough others did that he won, does not mean I was bound to vote for him four years afterward.
• I despised the Chancery Court’s decision and fear its repercussions if it wins on appeal. I belabored which way to vote for far longer than I ever have had to on any investment vote, and by orders of magnitude (3? 4?).
• I own as many Teslas as just about anyone, on or off TMC, with four currently in my stable, including two purchased in the past six months.
• I would be flabbergasted beyond recovery were I not in the top 5 of owners of shares of TSLA amongst TMC posters; indeed, it is likely I am the single largest shareholder. If anyone thinks he or she has more, and can come up with some secure way to create a comparison, please let me know.
• While neither of the prior two points imbues me with any more right to my opinion than has another, it nevertheless is irrefutable evidence that I maintain immense confidence in the future of Tesla as a company, and TSLA as an investment.
• I always have, and always will, hold with derision any who come across with the attitude, implicit or explicit, that Mr Musk must always be right; that because he has accomplished __x__ in the past, he will best by remaining CEO for the indefinite future.
• It is my strong-held belief and position that a contract is, indeed, a contract. EXACTLY THE SAME, I believe that one’s word is one’s bond, and with great importance and visibility comes an ever-increased responsibility for one to treat as sacrosanct one’s word - and I hold that Mr Musk has very seriously broken his word.

Is the BoD complicit in any of what has come to pass? Yes. Have they demonstrated their fundamental responsibility, which is to protect shareholders from actions of executive officers? No. Does all of the Board need to be replaced? No, but there are a number who are far too beholden to Mr M than is appropriate.

And now, Mod-On:

Keep the discussion harmonious; STOP the rancorous exchange with another poster; keep political rants off this thread and stop overwhelming Mods with reasons to step in.

 

[GatorMeat]

Exactly. He hinted as much. It looks like the retail investors will overwhelmingly vote to rectify the package. If it doesn't go through it is because of the institutional investors. Elon cares about the retail investors and not so much about the big guys. If we retail investors will back him he will back us.

Yes. Elon really cares about us shareholders. He has kept his promise to be the last out of TSLA and has stated his immense pay package was bc it is going to be expensive to get to Mars. Elon could have waded into politics and alienated 1/3 of the car buying public or even told them to GFY. He could have dumped his TSLA on the market to buy a failing social media site, but he didn't because Elon is the first richest man in the world that cares about us peasant shareholders. Elon deserves all us peasants to back him up and fight the FUD. He is such a genuine, caring man and the world's most stable genius.

 

[evermore]

I think the perspective of the no voters is that they want Elon to stop saying controversial things on X and just run his companies, especially Tesla. I voted yes, but a sizable no vote might send a message to Elon to tone down his rhetoric. Nah, probably not.

Other reasons I have read from people voting no:

• Concern about lack of governance from the BOD (they messed up enough on the first vote to have it voided and nothing has changed)
• Lack of interest from Elon in Tesla between 2021 and when the deal was voided shows even this deal is poor motivation
• Market cap has been below previously awarded milestones for a while, suggesting the deal was not actually aligned with long-term shareholder interests

 

[MC3OZ]

Lack of interest from Elon in Tesla between 2021 and when the deal was voided shows even this deal is poor motivation

How many earnings calls, investor days, product reveals, design and engineering meetings did Elon attend in that time?

I suspect Elon logged at least 50 hours working for Tesla in an average week 2021-2024.

And it is more about outcomes achieved 2021-2024.

We have had a complete revision of the FSD software stack, and the development of Optimus and the Gen3, manufacturing process in that time. Elon was involved in these areas, various investor days and master plan 3. What have the GM and Ford CEOs achieved 2021-2024?

 

[MP3Mike]

Thick-skulled as I may be…or not…it is dawning on me that some consider me, at the kindest, some sort of skewball for voting no on a sensitive topic. A few points, all of which I freely admit are in an attempt NOT for you to agree with my vote, but which could alter your opinion of me.

• I strongly agree with those who believe anyone who voted for the stock incentive award in 2018 is morally bound to do so again now. I did not, and just as I did not vote for ____X____ for US President in Nov. _____, but that enough others did that he won, does not mean I was bound to vote for him four years afterward.
• I despised the Chancery Court’s decision and fear its repercussions if it wins on appeal. I belabored which way to vote for far longer than I ever have had to on any investment vote, and by orders of magnitude (3? 4?).

It really comes down to: do you really think that a no vote is in the best long-term interest for Tesla and its shareholders. And I do not.

You still have time to change your vote.

 

[GatorMeat]

How many earnings calls, investor days, product reveals, design and engineering meetings did Elon attend in that time?

I suspect Elon logged at least 50 hours working for Tesla in an average week 2021-2024.

And it is more about outcomes achieved 2021-2024.

We have had a complete revision of the FSD software stack, and the development of Optimus and the Gen3, manufacturing process in that time. Elon was involved in these areas, various investor days and master plan 3. What have the GM and Ford CEOs achieved 2021-2024?

What has GM and F CEO's done in the last few years? Certainly not 1,000x less than Elon as he was paid 1,000x more than them

 

[spacerfc]

I think the perspective of the no voters is that they want Elon to stop saying controversial things on X and just run his companies, especially Tesla.

Why does anybody still think this is true is beyond me. We literally have more than one no voters - who has significant positions in TSLA no less - explicitly stated their goal is to remove Elon as CEO. It has nothing to do with wanting Elon to do anything, they want him *gone*, period. If you still want him as CEO, the only logically thing to do is to vote Yes to counter those who want to destroy the company.

 

[spacerfc]

Maybe Tesla's management structure should match SpaceX, where there is a professional at the top running the show instead of having all the execs report to Elon who fills a CEO role that he is not good at, like at Tesla.

Elon's role at SpaceX is CEO too, same as Tesla. Gwynne Shotwell is the COO.

I'm not opposed to the idea of a COO at Tesla, but it won't be easy to find a person qualified for this role, Gwynne has been working with Elon for over 20 years.

And let's just say voiding your CEO's compensation package is not conductive to finding qualified personnel to fill the COO role...

 

[Skryll]

What has GM and F CEO's done in the last few years? Certainly not 1,000x less than Elon as he was paid 1,000x more than them

Actually...

 

[aubreymcfato]

Yah that number has to be way off. It's one of those categories of statistics where what seems to be a minor assumption, or likeey-seeming factor that isn't correct throws things off 30 percent or 300 percent etc.
The real number would be impossible to calculate. But it's not zero and it is substantial.

If you add up the damages to ecosistema and human infrastructure and lives all over the world from climate change over a span of decades, it's not that difficult to reach a gynormus number.

 

[EVMeister]

Thanks for pointing that out, I will sleep better tonight.

It’s a parody account

But this isn't.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1800393639019037144

 

[LST]

A little personal, non-Mod, comment here:

Thick-skulled as I may be…or not…it is dawning on me that some consider me, at the kindest, some sort of skewball for voting no on a sensitive topic. A few points, all of which I freely admit are in an attempt NOT for you to agree with my vote, but which could alter your opinion of me.

• I strongly agree with those who believe anyone who voted for the stock incentive award in 2018 is morally bound to do so again now. I did not, and just as I did not vote for ____X____ for US President in Nov. _____, but that enough others did that he won, does not mean I was bound to vote for him four years afterward.
• I despised the Chancery Court’s decision and fear its repercussions if it wins on appeal. I belabored which way to vote for far longer than I ever have had to on any investment vote, and by orders of magnitude (3? 4?).
• I own as many Teslas as just about anyone, on or off TMC, with four currently in my stable, including two purchased in the past six months.
• I would be flabbergasted beyond recovery were I not in the top 5 of owners of shares of TSLA amongst TMC posters; indeed, it is likely I am the single largest shareholder. If anyone thinks he or she has more, and can come up with some secure way to create a comparison, please let me know.
• While neither of the prior two points imbues me with any more right to my opinion than has another, it nevertheless is irrefutable evidence that I maintain immense confidence in the future of Tesla as a company, and TSLA as an investment.
• I always have, and always will, hold with derision any who come across with the attitude, implicit or explicit, that Mr Musk must always be right; that because he has accomplished __x__ in the past, he will best by remaining CEO for the indefinite future.
• It is my strong-held belief and position that a contract is, indeed, a contract. EXACTLY THE SAME, I believe that one’s word is one’s bond, and with great importance and visibility comes an ever-increased responsibility for one to treat as sacrosanct one’s word - and I hold that Mr Musk has very seriously broken his word.

Is the BoD complicit in any of what has come to pass? Yes. Have they demonstrated their fundamental responsibility, which is to protect shareholders from actions of executive officers? No. Does all of the Board need to be replaced? No, but there are a number who are far too beholden to Mr M than is appropriate.

And now, Mod-On:

Keep the discussion harmonious; STOP the rancorous exchange with another poster; keep political rants off this thread and stop overwhelming Mods with reasons to step in.

Thanks for the clarification, it certainly did alter the impression of you after the initial post about the vote.

Out of curiosity, what leads you to the assessment of the two bullet points:

-I own as many Teslas as just about anyone,
and second:
- I am one of the top 5 owners of TSLA shares, It is likely I am the single largest shareholder

FYI I am one of the first Roadster owner in Switzerland, as of 9.9.2009, which I still have , I am on my 4th Model S, wife Model 3, I own TSLA since IPO and have accumulated since. I am not in on a pissing contest, but I am honestly curious. And I voted yes with all my shares and the ones of my extended family, which I manage. Sorry for eventual faults, English is not my first or second language. PM is welcome.

 

[cliff harris]

Boards of directors normally exist to stop a CEO doing anything crazy. But Elon's version of crazy always seems to generate billion of dollars in revenue and profits. I really don't think the traditional 'bunch of old semi-retired white dudes in suits who play golf' system is ever going to work alongside Elon.
I'm sure the board at GM, Ford, Toyota and VW are all very respectable, and professional, and adhere to all of the minutiae of minutes at meetings and so on.
How is that working out for them?

Any 'sensible' board at spacex would have vetoed the idea of reusable rockets. Just stick to basic falcon 9! They would then have vetoed starship entirely (falcon 9 is just fine!), and certainly vetoed the chopsticks idea.

I much prefer the way Tesla/SpaceX is run, even if you need nerves of steel as shareholders .

 

[Matias]

Elon is completely spazzing out on X

TMC is my main source for new idioms

 

[SunCatcher]

A little personal, non-Mod, comment here:

Thick-skulled as I may be…or not…it is dawning on me that some consider me, at the kindest, some sort of skewball for voting no on a sensitive topic. A few points, all of which I freely admit are in an attempt NOT for you to agree with my vote, but which could alter your opinion of me.

• I strongly agree with those who believe anyone who voted for the stock incentive award in 2018 is morally bound to do so again now. I did not, and just as I did not vote for ____X____ for US President in Nov. _____, but that enough others did that he won, does not mean I was bound to vote for him four years afterward.
• I despised the Chancery Court’s decision and fear its repercussions if it wins on appeal. I belabored which way to vote for far longer than I ever have had to on any investment vote, and by orders of magnitude (3? 4?).
• I own as many Teslas as just about anyone, on or off TMC, with four currently in my stable, including two purchased in the past six months.
• I would be flabbergasted beyond recovery were I not in the top 5 of owners of shares of TSLA amongst TMC posters; indeed, it is likely I am the single largest shareholder. If anyone thinks he or she has more, and can come up with some secure way to create a comparison, please let me know.
• While neither of the prior two points imbues me with any more right to my opinion than has another, it nevertheless is irrefutable evidence that I maintain immense confidence in the future of Tesla as a company, and TSLA as an investment.
• I always have, and always will, hold with derision any who come across with the attitude, implicit or explicit, that Mr Musk must always be right; that because he has accomplished __x__ in the past, he will best by remaining CEO for the indefinite future.
• It is my strong-held belief and position that a contract is, indeed, a contract. EXACTLY THE SAME, I believe that one’s word is one’s bond, and with great importance and visibility comes an ever-increased responsibility for one to treat as sacrosanct one’s word - and I hold that Mr Musk has very seriously broken his word.

Is the BoD complicit in any of what has come to pass? Yes. Have they demonstrated their fundamental responsibility, which is to protect shareholders from actions of executive officers? No. Does all of the Board need to be replaced? No, but there are a number who are far too beholden to Mr M than is appropriate.

And now, Mod-On:

Keep the discussion harmonious; STOP the rancorous exchange with another poster; keep political rants off this thread and stop overwhelming Mods with reasons to step in.

Dear Moderator/Forum-Thread Creator,

This post is, for me, particularly helpful, and is seen at a time when it's greatly needed. I, for one, request that you post/give us your opinions/thoughts perhaps a bit more often. Especially in times like this, when this thread has seen a dramatic drop off in quality content; helpful/thoughtful/respectful/considerate/insightful contributions. Having been closely glued to this forum thread since early 2016, I've noticed quite a few sea changes in its membership and contributor participations. I don't know if I'm alone in this feeling, but these days it seems that we're in some serious doldrums, and could use some help in getting wind back into the sails. We could use some useful breezes again to get the sails filled, and oxygen back into the bloodstream. Ugh.

I stay mostly quiet around here because I (perhaps like many) honestly don't know that much about the things that are important to talk about regarding TSLA & Co. I'm a learner (and far behind at that), and when I see the knowledge and backgrounds of so many of the higher quality contributors here, I'm usually able to remind myself to shut up and listen.

Thanks for your moderating tenacity and patience. And thanks to all for doing your best to keep the Tesla Train discussions on the proper tracks. Long may it run.

 

[Matias]

But this isn't.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1800393639019037144

This would be harmful for Tesla, because Musk would be spend much of his time with this.

 

[CorneliusXX]

I always have, and always will, hold with derision any who come across with the attitude, implicit or explicit, that Mr Musk must always be right; that because he has accomplished __x__ in the past, he will best by remaining CEO for the indefinite future

If you don't want Elon as CEO, who would you recommend for the CEO role? Or leadership team in general?