Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Leo used to be an ambassador for Fisker too. How did that work out?

I had one of those and returned it after a year full of issues. I got tired of the staring too.
With Fisker we're talking 2010-11, right? Would be pretty hard to determine a winner back then.

As far as BYD, if those deals were happening pre-2016, then Tesla likely wasn't looking for an ambassador back then, plus from the mass market/reducing tailpipes POV, standing behind a manufacturer with cheaper vehicles makes more sense than promoting $100k+ vehicles that nobody can afford. I see it as a sensible choice back then and is better than standing behind an ICE OEM.
 
Last edited:
This is almost certainly the work of Saudi Arabia. Nobody's named them yet, but "cui bono" applies. Saudi Arabia is the only country which benefits from this. So based on motive, it's them.

The Onion actually RTed an article they published a month ago. :)
The Onion‏Verified account @TheOnion
Bleeding John Bolton Stumbles Into Capitol Building Claiming That Iran Shot Him https://trib.al/VqVwlEq

D8-dE4LWwAAreGT.jpg

8:42 AM - 14 Jun 2019
 
Yes - its the short term vs medium term thing. BTW, I don't expect a big FTC pull forward effect in June. Its only $2k vs $3.5k in Q4. Also, Tesla isn't talking about it much.

Once China GF comes online, it gets better. Ofcourse When EU GF is also online, it becomes a non-issue.

Delivering 8k/wk worldwide in all 3 months is the most efficient. Otherwise you are putting stress on the delivery logistics in the 3rd month, while the delivery people have not enough work in the first 2 months.
Likely there's some effect. Just check the post above yours:
For what it's worth, a friend, who lives near Baltimore, tried to order a red performance model 3, with white interior. Put the order in yesterday, and it said two weeks. Today, they told him that Performance with white interior cannot be delivered by June. He had to go with an inventory long range dual motor non-performance. It just shipped from Fremont today.

Good demand indicator? Maybe too late to make and ship to east coast??
A person bypassed P to save $2k and bought an AWD. Also, considering there were less than 10k SRs sold in Q1, there had to be some pent up demand for SRs in Q2. We don't know for sure whether Q3 will have comparable numbers from N.A.
Q4/Q1 should show a sustained demand, which should keep growing going forward.
Not that I doubt Q3 N.A. demand, but if it goes to 2/3 of Q2 for a while, I won't be surprised or alarmed, this should be ok and temporary.
 
Regardless of what Wikipedia suggests, nobody makes nickel sulfate from nickel metal at scale; it's far too expensive. Battery-grade nickel sulfate is primarily produced directly from high-grade sulfide ores, while metallurgical nickel (ferronickel, nickel pig iron, NPI etc) is produced mainly from low-grade sulfide ores and laterites. The key difference in sulfide ores is the nickel concentration and form, which affects how difficult it is to get a high purity product.

Like sulfides, laterites can also be graded. High-grade laterites are more common than sulfides, while low-grade laterites are extremely common. The main difference is the geologic history. Laterites (your typical reddish-yellow tropical soils) are a byproduct of decomposition of olivine and serpentine, followed by subsequent oxidation. The iron tends to oxidize first and precipitate, while nickel, magnesium, and some other metals stay in solution and tend to precipitate downward until the solution is neutralized, wherein they precipitate out. But the degree of separation from the iron is never complete, usually quite limited, and sometimes doesn't even happen at all. This is limonitic ore, which is harder to process to a high-quality product (but on the upside, contains more cobalt and chromium). A well separated "silicate laterite" has the nickel mixed in with silicates and has a high magnesia content. Silicate laterates are suitable to pyrometalluric processes (smelting), while limonitic needs hydrometalluric processes (such as HPAL).

The 40% / 58% production does not correspond to reserves. Sulfides are preferred for production because they're cheaper to process, for a variety of reasons (even still, they're a minority of production). Reserves are a 20 / 80% split. And remember that all "reserves" figures you see for any resource are relative to a fixed price, tech, and exploration level. Sulfide deposits are highly geographically limited, while laterites can be found almost everywhere, and the only constraint is their production costs.

A key distinguishing factor is that oxide ores (laterites) are homogenous (nickel evenly mixed) but laterites are heterogenous (nickel minerals occur as distinct grains). So when processing sulfide ores, you use liberate the individual grains and then use physical processes (such as froth or magnetic separation) to concentrate the nickel minerals. Consequently, the purity of the nickel mineral grains themselves is a key factor, not just the overall nickel concentration of the ore. And it's not as simple as it sounds - in theory you can produce separate pentlandite (nickel), chalcopyrite (copper) and pyrrhotite (iron) concentrates - but part of your nickel exists as pentlandite inclusions and in solid solution in the pyrrhotite. So most producers outside of Canada don't even bother trying to separate them before smelting to ferronickel. The pyrrhotite fraction is however problematic because it contains most of your sulfur but only a minority of your nickel.

Where separated, nickel concentrates are usually only 5-15% nickel. 28% is considered "exceptional".

Nickel sulfate only makes up about 10% of the nickel market, and EV batteries in turn only consume a fraction of that. Neither ferronickel nor nickel sulfate ever exist as pure nickel metal during their production; ferronickel is a nickel-iron alloy (about 2/3rds nickel), and is produced that way. It's far too expensive to convert it to battery-grade sulfate. I forget the cutoff on battery grade, but I'm pretty sure it's at least 95% pure. While ferronickel is made via pyrometallurgical (smelting) processes, nickel sulfate is made from leaching of ores or concentrates (such as with sulfuric acid or ammoniacal ammonium sulfate) to dissolve the nickel (and other metals) into solution. Unwanted metals (such as copper) are then precipitated out of the solution via cementation or hydrogen sulfide (the latter also removes arsenic), whie residual iron can be removed with chlorine and nickel carbonate (this also coprecipitates lead and arsenic). Cobalt - which remains in the stream - can be separated by various methods, such as mixing nickel hydroxide into the solution (created by neutralizing nickel sulfate with sodium hydroxide) to precipitate cobalt hydroxide, or solvent extraction with a tertiary amine, such as D2EHPA. I would expect that most battery producers have no interest in reducing the cobalt content of their nickel sulfate, and would instead prefer to maximize it.

There are a wide range of electrolytic and carbonyl processes for producing high-grade nickel metal from nickel sulfate, but they do not apply when the desired feedstock is the nickel sulfate itself. A company like Tesla will process the sulfate on their own as they see fit to produce their cathodes.

As mentioned, the "dream scenario" for battery grade nickel production is if you can produce it from (common, cheap) laterites, and in particularly, the (really common, really cheap) low-grade limonitic laterites. One annoying thing about them is their high moisture content, due to the hydroxide minerals they contain (incl. limonite itself, iron hydroxide). If you could effect the results of drying and reduction roasting simultaneously with direct leaching, via acid dissolution, this would be hugely advantageous - except that under ambient conditions, almost everything (incl. the iron, which you don't want in solution) will dissolve. But under high temperatures and pressures the iron will precipitate out as hydrolated iron(III) oxide. This is HPAL - high pressure acid leach. Which is awesome, except for the fact that now your plant has to be able to withstand high-temperature high-pressure sulfuric acid! Being able to make a plant that can operate reliably under these conditions has been a big challenge, but it looks like there's been major progress on this front in recent years.

If you want to learn more on any refining process, I strongly recommend Ullmann's Encyclopedia of Industrial Chemistry. Great for scratching any chemical engineering itch ;) Discovered it back when I was writing a technical analysis on the colonization of Venus.
Bot...definitely bot. ;)

p.s. Nice to see you back here.
 
As a former Bimmer aficionado, I think comparing Teslas to ICE vehicles is more akin to comparing DVDs to 8-Track tapes. The difference is that dramatic. And, while clunky, inefficient 8-track tapes were a spectacular fail foisted upon consumers in the lost Seventies, at least they didn't kill you if you left them running in a closed garage!
Not sure it's true that 8-track tapes weren't deadly. That was the disco era.
 


Elon had just retweeted an Electrek article earlier today. - I wish he would stop giving these bozos free coverage, especially with the sort of bullsh!t articles like the above linked.

Tesla clearly says its increasing service centre headcount, yet Fred, after getting that response from tesla, continues with his asinine opinion as follows “It might be too premature for Tesla to start letting go of employees in service in my opinion.”

It doesnt take a genius to read between the lines - Tesla got rid of some underperforming service staff.
 
Elon had just retweeted an Electrek article earlier today. - I wish he would stop giving these bozos free coverage, especially with the sort of bullsh!t articles like the above linked.

Tesla clearly says its increasing service centre headcount, yet Fred, after getting that response from tesla, continues with his asinine opinion as follows “It might be too premature for Tesla to start letting go of employees in service in my opinion.”

It doesnt take a genius to read between the lines - Tesla got rid of some underperforming service staff.

Ya, my first thought reading this was: great! Hopefully they got rid of the terrible service communications people(the technicians I’ve come across have largely been fantastic).
 
Rimac's system is essentially what's been standard on electric multiple unit trains for decades. I've actually wondered why Tesla didn't do it to start with.

I have been assuming that it's a cost issue of some sort.
EV's don't need multiple motors and inverters to be superior to ICE vehicles, so it was a lack of need and thus no need for the added costs.
 
Supply chain is one of those core competencies.

If that is a core competency, "turn out the lights..." as Dandy Don would croon.

Tesla's procurement/supply chain management has been pretty much a disaster since the git-go. Remember:
Magna International and the Roadster two speed gear box?
Air freighting tires for early Model S's from the Czech Republic?
Hoerbiger and the Model X Falcon Wing Doors?
Air freighting in six plane loads of robots to GF-1 for Module 2 in the pack assembly line because an un-named subcontractor screwed up?
etc?
All the supply chain/procurement executives of any gravitas have departed. Where are
Liam O'Connor?
Adam Plumpton?
Peter Carlsson?
etc.?​
Can you identify the individual that is now managing this core competency?

Supply chain is about acquiring in a timely, cost effective manner the components need in one's business. It's not about deviating into acquiring the means of producing (such as mining and refining) those components.
 
If that is a core competency, "turn out the lights..." as Dandy Don would croon.

Tesla's procurement/supply chain management has been pretty much a disaster since the git-go. Remember:
Magna International and the Roadster two speed gear box?
Air freighting tires for early Model S's from the Czech Republic?
Hoerbiger and the Model X Falcon Wing Doors?
Air freighting in six plane loads of robots to GF-1 for Module 2 in the pack assembly line because an un-named subcontractor screwed up?
etc?
All the supply chain/procurement executives of any gravitas have departed. Where are
Liam O'Connor?
Adam Plumpton?
Peter Carlsson?
etc.?​
Can you identify the individual that is now managing this core competency?

Supply chain is about acquiring in a timely, cost effective manner the components need in one's business. It's not about deviating into acquiring the means of producing (such as mining and refining) those components.

Well, we will know by Christmas if those experiences were educational. If Model 3s are rolling out of GF3 into the hands of Chinese customers, then lessons learned - supply competency secured.
 
A colleague approached me today to say he was considering an electric car, an i3 to be exact. He said he was considering a Tesla but heard they were going bankrupt and difficult to service. Of course I had to reeducate him and now I think he will get a model 3 but it blows my mind that this is what everyone thinks. Tesla desperately needs a marketing, communications team to correct this as it is really damaging the brand and hurting sales.
 
A colleague approached me today to say he was considering an electric car, an i3 to be exact. He said he was considering a Tesla but heard they were going bankrupt and difficult to service. Of course I had to reeducate him and now I think he will get a model 3 but it blows my mind that this is what everyone thinks. Tesla desperately needs a marketing, communications team to correct this as it is really damaging the brand and hurting sales.

Depends. If there were more cars than informed buyers it would be true. If there are more informed buyers than cars, sales are unaffected, it just makes the wait time shorter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Krugerrand and JRP3
The FUD and anti-Tesla misinformation / spin out there is quite annoying. I don't think advertising will fix it. The positivity has to come from third parties, not Tesla itself. Tesla telling people it's fine / great will only fuel the fire.

I saw a Jalopnik article from yesterday saying Model 3 best revenue car doesn't mean anything. Of *sugar*ing course it does, even if Tesla had 1 bad recent quarter. It's so stupid. And then people in the comments pretend they know what they're talking about typing out long responses filled with misinformation.
 
A colleague approached me today to say he was considering an electric car, an i3 to be exact. He said he was considering a Tesla but heard they were going bankrupt and difficult to service. Of course I had to reeducate him and now I think he will get a model 3 but it blows my mind that this is what everyone thinks. Tesla desperately needs a marketing, communications team to correct this as it is really damaging the brand and hurting sales.

Price wasn’t a factor in the colleague’s decision?
One of my coworkers recently leased a 530e because monthly (and down) was a lot cheaper than leasing even a SR+. I’m sure the i3’s can be leased for even less these days.
 
Now, I've had a couple of scotches so far this evening, so excuse me if this is a little stream-of-consciousness. But. When I read a post like the one above I get kind of excited for the next few years. I don't own a Tesla (just the stock), and I've never even driven one. I have a 2006 civic with lots of peeling paint and janky wheels. But the second that mythical short squeeze happens, the second purchase I make after buying a Souris River Quetico 17 canoe is going to be a Model 3. The fact that so few people know so little about this company and the products it makes - like the folks you're talking about in your post - leaves me a little gobsmacked at how much room there is to run.

I have no idea what to think about this advertising situation - I'm no expert. I read a post from someone advocating one position and I think, "Yeah, that makes sense, Tesla should do the rational thing and run some targeted internet ads." And then I read another post from @Krugerrand and think, "Down with the propaganda! We shall not manufacture consent!" (apologies for the dramatization). I just like to imagine what I see as an inevitable future where Teslas are the cool cars that people aspire to have. All they have to do is stay afloat till Gen Z has the means to start buying cars. Then it's game over.

Time for some Letterkenny.

I like you tipsy.