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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Lol, Cramer is now a full-on TSLA cheerleader fan-boi:

“I don’t want you to own Ford. I want you to own the stock of Tesla,” said Jim Cramer | Dec 18

In other newz, dogz'n'cats sleeping together... :rolleyes:

Cheers!

Ford has stumbled since 2013 when I bot some stock. Thought they might be the partner to Tesla but it did not happen. Sold the Ford stock when they killed the C-Max which was a great car crying for for a modest battery upgrade Ford would not do. It would have secured a product line in a space they would have to themselves for a few years.

Now Tesla has more time and Ford has a luke warm Mach E that will assure disappointing results in a competitive space. Cramer is right but late to the call IMO.
 
Funny--I've long thought that the lifestyle section of Tesla's store is a huge missed opportunity. The selection, especially of clothing, is almost impressive in its terribleness.

Tesla has a large contingent of fans and customers, largely well-off, and Tesla squanders it.
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How many Cybertruck T-Shirts do you think they would sell and that's more free advertisement.. I was in an airport recently with a Supercharging T-Shirt right before the truck reveal and the TSA agent went on an on about how excited she was for the reveal and this was in Rhode Island no less. Not like this was in California where you can't go a block without seeing a Tesla so I was happy to hear her excitement.

Their current selection of free marketing items are definitely lacking and I've tweeted Tesla and Elon asking for more.
 
Surveying and marking the tree farm at GF4 has started. Rapid clearing expected to start on 6 January.

#Gf4 #Gigafactory4 on Twitter
I'm not impressed. January 6 is a long, long way away. They could check for bombs as they go and get to work right away. And they were ALREADY managing the tree farm as-is, so that shouldn't be necessary first anyway.
 
thanks for posting this.

could be pretty significant.

I might be missing something on this, but, isn’t it also quite possible that with these rules about to come into effect Peugeot already has a plan in place?
PSA already had a deficit prior to buying Opel/Vauxhall. GME had done nearly nothing to prepare so PSA is in deep trouble already, prior to expected EU tightening. FCA is not really much better. Thus the Tesla deal becomes more important but much more important than that deal is the platform preparation FCA needs. The combination is in a dominant position for small urban passenger and delivery vehicles in Southern Europe and is EU-dominant in, for example, camper conversions and a fair number of other specialized commercial vehicles.

Right now FCA/PSA is in such horrible shape that this combination seems much like BMC. Those who remember BMC know how bad that was. Just as BMC tried rebadged Honda, as one example, Tavares is rapidly making Opel/Vauxhall into rebadged Peugeot. That defers disaster. In the meantime FCA survives in large part due to Jeep, itself poorly prepared for 2030.

Those who speculate Tesla to the rescue rather miss the point. There will be no rescue of the horrible mess. However, Tesla can obviously make substantial profits selling credits to them, so long as they have the cash to pay.

This is painful for me to say because I am largely a fan of both Elkann and Tavares, for quite different reasons. They simply are merging while agreeing not to shut factories, many of which date back >50 years and are very resistant to reform. Both of them have aging, inflexible workforces, most of which are in Italy, France and Germany. That transition will be almost impossible.

When considering VAG, Toyota, GM, Ford, Renault/Nissan/Mitsubishi we have variations on the same themes, but none are well-prepared. VAG at least understands platform management better than anyone else.

When we look at the best hopes for real advances we see embarrassing efforts from JLR, VAG, GM and Ford. None are really good enough. All are too expensive. The I-Pace, e-tron, Taycan and Mach-E are all very pretty and some are great to drive too. None have enough range, none understand the critical role of OTA, none actually have the capacity even if they had had none of the other issues. None can surmount dealer problems.

These comments could perhaps be in competition threads. However, the core reality is that no matter what else happens Tesla now has a vehicle lineup that is better than ICE for maybe 10% of total vehicle purchasers. Were Tesla to have that market share they would be one of the largest four vehicle manufacturers:
Focus2move| World Car Group Ranking in the 2019

I do not suggest that such will actually happen. I do think Tesla has three gigantic challenges. In order:
1. Vehicle distribution- Tesla need much improved distribution in every single market, including California and Norway.
2. Model range- Tesla needs upwards of 25 different models. They can do that with modular techniques, just as they now do. They have the skills and ideas to do that.
3. Manufacturing/assembly- Elon has spoken of ~100 Gigafactories. If anything he could be underestimating.

I did not mention technology of any kind simply because nothing technological is an impediment for Tesla so long as they continue to do what they are doing. Their advances are almost faster than humans can absorb the improvements now, they only need to keep doing that.

Zero mention of Tesla Energy even though it stands to be bigger than vehicles. Why not? Simply because the only impediment to exponential growth in TE is the ability to scale manufacturing/assembly. In TE the market economics and reliability are already proven. The ability to deliver solutions faster than any competitive technology is also proven. Scaling is only in capacity. In that arena all the competitors combined can succeed for decades to come without saturating the demand. After all this is replacing more than 100 years of fossils.

What could impede TE? How about fusion? That has been 35 years away since ~1950 and it still is. If it happens the energy storage needs will still grow, perhaps even faster.

My conclusion is that the only real impediment to continued growth for decades to come is loss of vision, perhaps engendered by volatility but definitely driven by anti-science politics. If those happen there will be no safe haven anyway.

As a hopeful and hopefully rational person I am determined to do all I can to promote Tesla.
I understand enough of the market dynamics and mechanics to know that all short term market movements detract from dedication to the mission. Were it not for the insatiable need for external capital being private would be much much better.

SpaceX might well be the superior model. OTOH, when the industrial scale is on the order of VAG, Toyota and FCA/PSA it's highly unlikely that such can be achieved without some public ownership.

If TSLA does not go below 375 during the next month I'll probably double my TSLA bet. I wanted to do that six months ago, but I could not liquidate other long term assets quickly enough to do that. This time we will see massive expansion during the next two years. Failure to have continuing cash flow positive, GAAP positive results is less likely now, even as the Tesla US vehicle market share might well stagnate until Model Y and Cybertruck begin deliveries.
 
I'm not impressed. January 6 is a long, long way away. They could check for bombs as they go and get to work right away. And they were ALREADY managing the tree farm as-is, so that shouldn't be necessary first anyway.

My theory with that is that there are different levels of screening for bombs for different applications. After all, a Tree farm usually only has non-humans in it if a tree somehow triggers a remnant bomb there. Even when harvesting, the number of people there would be minimal.

A car factory, however, will not only have dug into the ground for water, sewage, electricity and so on, but will have far more weight (heavy robots making heavy cars) and people in it on the day to day than the tree farm.
 
Funny--I've long thought that the lifestyle section of Tesla's store is a huge missed opportunity. The selection, especially of clothing, is almost impressive in its terribleness.

Tesla has a large contingent of fans and customers, largely well-off, and Tesla squanders it.

For the price of a highly-rated freelance shirt.woot.com contributor, they could pretty easily make a much wider selection of designs, with new ones appearing weekly.

I'd certainly bite. It's not even about the revenue from the store--their prices indicate that they're clearly not interested in volume in this area. But it'd certainly increase sales if the designs were more impressive and frequent.

They don't even carry the Tesla bicycle jersey anymore. It is great, good advertising and a slimming design. It's really sharp in red gray and white.
 
Ask him what benchmarks Tesla has to meet for him to consider it a viable company. Pretty much any rational financial benchmark he can mention will probably be met in the next 12 months. I.e. you only have to wait.

... ... ...

Or ask him why a jury of 12 peers found Elon "not guilty" after less than 20 minutes of deliberations, which one of the jurors characterized as a "very clear case" - after a year long smear campaign against Elon?

Are these rocket scientists, business industrials, SEC lawyers and jury members all in on the con?

If your friend isn't even willing to fairly consider such evidence then he's gone "emotional TSLAQ" I'm afraid, like most TSLAQ types on Twitter.
Just a minor pick to nit:
Upon belief and hearsay, I think there were 8 or 9 jurors.
Applause to the rest.
 
View attachment 489539

This according to Bjorn Nyland or TeslaBjorn.

..
No argument at all. However, there are India, Brazil and another half-dozen countries that have similar or larger prospects.


Once one leaves US-centric production one opens up gigantic opportunities.

Production in Germany will do a lot.

We can fill huge threads with the rich opportunities, How quickly can TSLA scale? How quickly can Tesla field smaller and more utilitarian vehicles to meet the demand? How quickly can TE and others deliver enough infrastructure to support those fleets?

For vehicular references look at Toyota and Hyundai for a notion of how long it takes to become ubiquitous globally, even without infrastructure impediments.
 
Clearing bombs is one thing. Are you saying clearing of the archeological history of Rome is the same thing? If so I do not believe that is the place for a factory. Let's pave paradise and put up a parking lot.

In such a case, as I've mentioned before, they' d surely do what was done in Reykjavík when construction of a new building discovered the remains of an old longhouse: they modified the plans to add a basement, built over it, and then archaeologists could take their time excavating the basement (which is now an in-situ museum).

In Tesla's case, I assume that they'd focus just on excavation of specific small areas for pillar foundations to elevate the floor. After that, archaeologists could take their sweet time - years if they wanted. I think the only area they might not be able to do this would be the press line.
 
I'm not impressed. January 6 is a long, long way away. They could check for bombs as they go and get to work right away. And they were ALREADY managing the tree farm as-is, so that shouldn't be necessary first anyway.
Why don't they just detonate the bombs where they are. That will kill 2 birds with one stone.
 
Some pretty nice pre-market price action so far, TSLA now up from the $378.99 closing price to $381.6 now:

upload_2019-12-18_14-29-40.png

Light volume of ~30k shares traded so far.
 
My theory with that is that there are different levels of screening for bombs for different applications. After all, a Tree farm usually only has non-humans in it if a tree somehow triggers a remnant bomb there. Even when harvesting, the number of people there would be minimal.

A car factory, however, will not only have dug into the ground for water, sewage, electricity and so on, but will have far more weight (heavy robots making heavy cars) and people in it on the day to day than the tree farm.
Shouldn't it be fairly quick and easy these days to check for metal below the surface? I don't believe they made bombs from nonferrous metals in WWII (and certainly not WWI).
 
No argument at all. However, there are India, Brazil and another half-dozen countries that have similar or larger prospects.


Once one leaves US-centric production one opens up gigantic opportunities.

Production in Germany will do a lot.

We can fill huge threads with the rich opportunities, How quickly can TSLA scale? How quickly can Tesla field smaller and more utilitarian vehicles to meet the demand? How quickly can TE and others deliver enough infrastructure to support those fleets?

For vehicular references look at Toyota and Hyundai for a notion of how long it takes to become ubiquitous globally, even without infrastructure impediments.
Didn't Tesla try to set up a battery module factory in Thailand in the super early days - prior to the MS release? They might have some scars from that experience.
 
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Exactly. I don't see a source listed for that comment but my initial thought was "If Tesla is announcing this now, that means they have more demand in China than they know what to do with. That the Model 3 is wildly successful and sought after." But then I thought, "Well, if that's the case, why would they bother announcing this now and not when they are ready to lower prices?".

In other words, it doesn't sound credible.

But the effect can still be that many Chinese that have planned to buy the MIC Model 3 will now wait for the price reduction that they have now come to expect.

PS. With the trading day started, the market does not seem to care...
 
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