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My 2015 P85DL would throttle back due to thermal limits after only a few corners at a race track. Has this been solved? Which year/model?
I know a M3P is OK for track and there's plenty of videos around, but a Model S? Can't find any P100DL videos from Nurburgring.

I'm afraid that Elon set himself up for a failure. Or they'll just remove thermal limits and let it run a little hotter?
 
The Model S has a ~7% larger battery but weighs only 2,108 kg vs. the Taycan which is 2,870 kg - a 35% mass advantage and an around 42% energy density advantage (!).

Lower weight should be a significant advantage on the Nürburgring - but I believe the Model S will require Track Mode to take full advantage of it, which would:
  • make use of dynamic air suspension to help cornering or at least to stiffen up the suspension,
  • allow the car to slip a bit when exiting corners - there's over 150 corners on the Nürburgring,
  • increase the regen rate, this both helps keep the friction brakes cooler, and keeps the state of charge higher, plus gives less cooling workload to the cooling system,
  • temporarily allow higher power to the motors, if the thermal sensors allow it,
  • over-chill the battery pack and the rest of the powertrain when there's excess cooling capacity, in anticipation of bigger pulses of thermal load,
  • other track driving tricks, such as assisting two feet brake+accelerator pedal driving.
Tesla could do a lot to improve stock Raven Model S track performance - the hardware side is mostly there: the brakes are good, the center of gravity is low, polar momentum of rotation is low, the suspension can be stiff, drag coefficient is low, and the raw powertrain performance is there, the thermal system presumably got upgraded with Raven, the rest is Track Mode software. ;)

If everything works out then I can see the Model S beating the best ever 4 door sedan lap time on the Nürburgring - which is the "2019 Mercedes-AMG GT 63 S" with a record lap time of 7:25.41, if I googled it correctly. There's another website that lists the 2016 version at 7:10, but that might not be street legal to sell anymore. The Taycan achieved a best lap time of 7:42.

Those are the levels to approach and eventually to beat.

I think you got the Taycan weights wrong - I'm seeing 2358,7 for the Taycan, and for the Model S Performance I'm seeing is 2241kg (4941 lbs) according to the specs on Tesla.com.

Still, it's surprising. How did Porsche make a car with a smaller battery and a vastly higher unit cost and a smaller interior end up heavier? It boggles the mind.

And even a ~117kg weight difference should help with cornering.
 
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My 2015 P85DL would throttle back due to thermal limits after only a few corners at a race track. Has this been solved? Which year/model?
I know a M3P is OK for track and there's plenty of videos around, but a Model S? Can't find any P100DL videos from Nurburgring.

I'm afraid that Elon set himself up for a failure. Or they'll just remove thermal limits and let it run a little hotter?

I'm sure they've made improvements on this issue every few months since 2015, but Tesla completely revamped the Model S and X Powertrain this year in April.

Tesla changed the motor, inverters, cooling, bearings, and gear design. They upgraded the charging equipment and likely much of the wiring and also added new adaptive suspension.
 
Someone at the Nurburg Ring (I think he works there?) posted something VERY interesting on Instagram yesterday... "Trust @elonrmuskk , he is an engineer." and posted pictures of a performance Raven S, with different wheels (fatter tyres?) and a gurney flap on the spoiler...

Misha on Instagram: “Trust @elonrmuskk , he is an engineer. #diy #tesla #nurburgring #nordschleife #beatthetaycan?”

This was posted 11 hours (approx) before Elon made the statement that they will take on the Taycan there.

I think he knows what he is doing... ;) Track mode, sticky tyres and a good driver? It just might be possible. I need some popcorn, as whatever happens this will be fun to watch!
 
In What way? By replacing the front motor? Rev E Battery? Any reference?

How is it that people missed this? It was massive news. Wow, I'm really glad that Tesla is doing this race, there's a lot of myths that they need to bust even among Tesla fans.

Model S and X now have the "Raven" drivetrain, based on an updated version of the Model 3's drivetrain - one PM motor and one induction motor. The PM motor never overheats, while the AC motor gets more rest time. It combines the best of both worlds - the high power density at low RPMs without torque ripple of the induction motor, and the high efficiency / easy cooling of the PM motor. The induction motor can freewheel without cogging torque or magnetic drag torque when there's no demand for its power (no power in the coils = no induction currents in the rotor). It's just a great combination.
 
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I think you got the Taycan weights wrong - I'm seeing 2358,7 for the Taycan, and for the Model S Performance I'm seeing is 2241kg (4941 lbs) according to the specs on Tesla.com.

Still, it's surprising. How did Porsche make a car with a smaller battery and a vastly higher unit cost and a smaller interior end up heavier? It boggles the mind.

And even a ~117kg weight difference should help with cornering.
Was going to suggest that silly clock, but I see you already got a better answer: the tranny.
 
You forgot one last option:
Then do it on Autopilot.


They Taycan runs a 800V battery pack, if you plug into a 400V charging station, the car has to boost the voltage to 800V. If you don't get the 150 kW on-board DC charger, you will be limited to 50 kW. For $460, it seems crazy not to include it on a $150k+ vehicle.

Yeah, that's bordering on deception!
 
upload_2019-9-6_18-47-51.jpeg


New numbers out of Germany today that should spark debate. 4th largest economy in the world, third largest export economy in the world, largest trade surplus of any economy in the world. And then this graph.

So are these figures because:
a) many of its largest export markets are themselves evidencing signs of underlying slowdown or early recession signs (US, China, UK), or
b) because as Merkel claimed “1/7 German jobs indirectly depends on the auto industry” and Tesla / Chinese EVs are quietly suffocating them (about a fifth of steady state exports are autos).

Any data monkeys out there want to venture a guess? Either way, for now I am content with my dual strategy of gold/gilts and TSLA.
 
Really? I thought CCS was DC, so directly into the battery, the charger only being for AC?

Shoot me down if I'm wrong on that.
They Taycan runs a 800V battery pack, if you plug into a 400V charging station, the car has to boost the voltage to 800V. If you don't get the 150 kW on-board DC charger, you will be limited to 50 kW. For $460, it seems crazy not to include it on a $150k+ vehicle.

Putting in a 150kW boost converter is possible, but a reallly poor engineering choice. Even at 97% efficiency, that's an extra 5kW of heat output. Nearly equal to the Tesla cabin heater.

Here's my hypothesis: the car really runs on 400V. This module is the set of 3 additional contactors needed to electrically switch the packs from two parallel block into two series blocks. Thus getting twice the power ftom the same charge cable by doubling the voltage.


As you can see lowering the RPM of an electric motor can increase its power output, because the power output down-slope starting point can be shifted to the right.

Where did you get that power map from?
This one shows the S (P100DL+ non Raven) with a much flatter powerband that would not benefit greatly from a two speed gearbox until well over 105.
Also, this event could preceed the release of another SW based performance update (part of V10)


From Drag Times
Tesla Model S P100D Torque Amazes Drag Times After Dyno Test | enrg.io

P100D-Dyno-Chart-2000x1114.jpg
 
Yeah, that's bordering on deception!

No, what's real deception is that you can't buy the car for the price listed. Go to the configurator and try:

https://www.porsche.com/modelstart/all/

Let's try with the Turbo S. Here's the cheapest I can make it (vs. the nominal $185k):

upload_2019-9-6_11-10-36.png


Of course, when you're dropping that kind of money, who cares, right? ;) But we all know what the shorts would be saying if this was Tesla.

Seriously, everything is an option - it's crazy. I assume everyone's seen this thread where they go through and list them all?

Steve Jobs Ghost on Twitter