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Cross post from Kettleman city thread...

Getting 16 of the Kettleman chargers switched over to V3 was hugely important, for the relief it provided, but also from a data acquisition standpoint. The question that needs to be answered here, and at other soon to be realized choke points, is what is the optimum solution taking everything into account. You can model what you think is going to happen when V3s are in place versus V2s, but that only goes so far, you need real people traveling during the peak period to see how they behave. Tesla now has V3 vs. V2 utilization data for the biggest Holiday choke point in their system. This will let then know precisely what benefit upgrading the remaining V2 chargers to V3 will accomplish. I'm assuming that they also have visibility into the number of line waiters via the in car data connection.

The solution space includes such things as: 1) Upgrading V2 to V3 chargers, 2) Only allowing charging to 80% based on users anticipated route and other charger availability down the road, 3) Raising idle fees to get people motivated to unplug as soon as they are done (only during Holiday rush), 4) Altering the in car navigation routing to send people to less used Superchargers depending on their usage and the drivers intended route. Thats just a start, but most of the list is nothing more than smart software upgrades. The last resort is building another large Supercharger across the street unless it is absolutely necessary. Of course, given Model 3 sales rates, it is going to be necessary at some point, just when is the question.

Having said all that, I don't believe the "goal" for Tesla is to never have a line at any Supercharger during busy Holiday periods. Not much consolation for people having to wait in line for 30 minutes yesterday. EV drivers already know that charging takes longer than using a gas car. Adding another 20 minutes for a line wait once a year isn't going to result in the death of the company or any amount of people selling their cars. The worlds finest Tesla lounge is right there, plenty of beverages on tap, clean restrooms, etc. People are adaptable and many will rethink their travel timing if it bothers them enough. Exhibit A for first world problems.

The bottom line here is that Tesla the company is uniquely (currently) in the position of having to solve this problem, and the methodology they use to solve it will be used over and over down the road as other site also need to solve the Holiday travel issue. The big difference with the EV competition is that nobody else has this problem yet, but it is coming. And because the other EV drivers are going to be using a different set of DCFCs that aren't part of a single ecosystem, they are going to end up having an ever worse problem than Tesla has during the Holiday periods. And the other players will not have the ability to alleviate it like Tesla does. This is yet another area that Tesla has a huge advantage versus other companies, but one that the other companies won't be able to "catch up" due to the fact that so many different players are involved.

RT
 
I have a nephew who works in operations at Kia USA Headquarters.

My brother-in-law (not his dad) tried to goad me into "hey, watcha think about those Kia cars"

I said "no worse than Hyundai or Honda" and just left it there.

Something about a man's ignorance is never so immovable as when his career depends on it.

Agree with one exception. Bob Lutz
 
Cross post from Kettleman city thread...

Getting 16 of the Kettleman chargers switched over to V3 was hugely important, for the relief it provided, but also from a data acquisition standpoint. The question that needs to be answered here, and at other soon to be realized choke points, is what is the optimum solution taking everything into account. You can model what you think is going to happen when V3s are in place versus V2s, but that only goes so far, you need real people traveling during the peak period to see how they behave. Tesla now has V3 vs. V2 utilization data for the biggest Holiday choke point in their system. This will let then know precisely what benefit upgrading the remaining V2 chargers to V3 will accomplish. I'm assuming that they also have visibility into the number of line waiters via the in car data connection.

The solution space includes such things as: 1) Upgrading V2 to V3 chargers, 2) Only allowing charging to 80% based on users anticipated route and other charger availability down the road, 3) Raising idle fees to get people motivated to unplug as soon as they are done (only during Holiday rush), 4) Altering the in car navigation routing to send people to less used Superchargers depending on their usage and the drivers intended route. Thats just a start, but most of the list is nothing more than smart software upgrades. The last resort is building another large Supercharger across the street unless it is absolutely necessary. Of course, given Model 3 sales rates, it is going to be necessary at some point, just when is the question.

Having said all that, I don't believe the "goal" for Tesla is to never have a line at any Supercharger during busy Holiday periods. Not much consolation for people having to wait in line for 30 minutes yesterday. EV drivers already know that charging takes longer than using a gas car. Adding another 20 minutes for a line wait once a year isn't going to result in the death of the company or any amount of people selling their cars. The worlds finest Tesla lounge is right there, plenty of beverages on tap, clean restrooms, etc. People are adaptable and many will rethink their travel timing if it bothers them enough. Exhibit A for first world problems.

The bottom line here is that Tesla the company is uniquely (currently) in the position of having to solve this problem, and the methodology they use to solve it will be used over and over down the road as other site also need to solve the Holiday travel issue. The big difference with the EV competition is that nobody else has this problem yet, but it is coming. And because the other EV drivers are going to be using a different set of DCFCs that aren't part of a single ecosystem, they are going to end up having an ever worse problem than Tesla has during the Holiday periods. And the other players will not have the ability to alleviate it like Tesla does. This is yet another area that Tesla has a huge advantage versus other companies, but one that the other companies won't be able to "catch up" due to the fact that so many different players are involved.

RT
Screen Shot 2019-12-01 at 10.22.52 AM.png


Just extend the Multi plug design ...
For every supercharger, allocate 2-3 parking spots with 2-3 chargers(slots, extension cords)
Even as one car charges, the other car can pull in and plug into 2nd, 3rd spot (and go use other services..coffee, restroom etc.)
Once 1st car is charged to 80%, have software automatically switch to charging the 2nd car. Notify all parties with updates.
 
For MCU2 cars, that’s true, and those upgrades have started to happen during existing service appointments. For MCU1 cars, we’ve been told by Tesla that it’s not available yet, as the MCU isn’t compatible with the new FSD computer. So it’ll require some new workaround or upgrading those cars not just to the FSD computer, but also MCU2.

That’s not just a simple plug and play operation, as it requires replacing that center screen, the computer behind it, and the instrument cluster(which is its own computer in MCU1 config, but a dumb screen controlled by the MCU in MCU2 config). That’s for all S/X with FSD between Sept ‘16 and, as I remember, March ‘18. While I’d love it if they could do all that before the end of the year(my car is one of those), I don’t expect that to happen anytime soon.


I have one of these MCU1 cars with pre-paid FSD, and my AP is “2.5”. Do you have a source for the prerequisite of MCU2 to upgrade to the new FSD computer (aka AP3/HW3)?

I would actually love to get MCU2, am jealous of my wife’s model 3 screen performance, so would prefer that to any other “workarounds”.
 
Interesting Tesla battery cost analysis by JPR007 on Twitter. He estimates that Panasonic may have achieved 19% cost reduction while approaching 35 GWh/year production rate by the end of this year. The cost reduction is mostly attributed to higher energy density in newly introduced battery cells and lower overhead cost per cell. If true, GF1 might finally become a profit center for Panasonic and it bodes well for lower cost/higher performance/higher margin Tesla vehicles.
 
I have one of these MCU1 cars with pre-paid FSD, and my AP is “2.5”. Do you have a source for the prerequisite of MCU2 to upgrade to the new FSD computer (aka AP3/HW3)?

I would actually love to get MCU2, am jealous of my wife’s model 3 screen performance, so would prefer that to any other “workarounds”.

Lots of discussion about it here: HW 2.0 to HW 3.0?

There are quotes from Tesla service buried in there, but, unfortunately, the thread has been filled with a lot of off topic stuff, so they take a while to find.
 
Jason Yang has his weekly update on GF3 out from Nov 29.


Nice closeup of the M3s produced
View attachment 483351

The factory was busy this day with around 30 trailers backed up to the factory (you can't see them all in this shot), suggesting the ramp is going well.
View attachment 483352

Buildings around the grid connection are still being finished. Although we have already heard that the factory is fully juiced.
View attachment 483353

Services plumbed into the battery building
View attachment 483354

No shortage of labour. 18 people on this one section of roof alone.
View attachment 483355

Real lawn. Surely a sign they're almost done
View attachment 483356

just a heads up , the video posted yesterday is newer than this one. you can tell by the demolishing of the concrete pad at the superchargers.

it looks like the time between te video's was at most 24 hours , maybe even the same day. Someone with a lot more free time than me should try to calculate a run rate from the difference ;)
 
I have one of these MCU1 cars with pre-paid FSD, and my AP is “2.5”. Do you have a source for the prerequisite of MCU2 to upgrade to the new FSD computer (aka AP3/HW3)?

I would actually love to get MCU2, am jealous of my wife’s model 3 screen performance, so would prefer that to any other “workarounds”.

Btw., I'm 100% sure that Tesla is going to reward all the $5,000+$7,000 FSD early supporters - Tesla just needs to get the simpler part of the HW3 migration going first.
 
Weekend OT

"Motor Week" tested the 2020 Porsche 911. Their 0-60 time was 3.0 seconds.

So the Cybertruck's <2.9 time is certainly faster than that.

Remains to be seen what the 911 will do in 2022.

And w.r.t. the gentleman who was getting lots of punctures on his Model 3... I got 6 punctures on my Model S during the first 100,000 miles and then none after that (220,000 miles total). It's just bad luck IMO.
 
SUBJECT: Zeebrugge photo.

I may be wrong but the cars in the back sections dont look like Tesla's.
Only the first section seem to be model 3's.

Agree. The section behind the Model 3s have front grills, different headlights (circular) and more boxy cabins with sharper angle of windscreen from hood, definitely not Teslas. The section on the right I am not sure about, but the one further behind on the right is also clearly not Tesla, visible grills and different headlights.
 
The solution space includes such things as: 1) Upgrading V2 to V3 chargers, 2) Only allowing charging to 80% based on users anticipated route and other charger availability down the road, 3) Raising idle fees to get people motivated to unplug as soon as they are done (only during Holiday rush), 4) Altering the in car navigation routing to send people to less used Superchargers depending on their usage and the drivers intended route. Thats just a start, but most of the list is nothing more than smart software upgrades. The last resort is building another large Supercharger across the street unless it is absolutely necessary. Of course, given Model 3 sales rates, it is going to be necessary at some point, just when is the question.

When Supercharger congestion is a problem, it is the stall itself and not the electricity which is a sarce resource. As such it could make sense to price the charging session not only according to electricity charged, but also according to the time spent at the charger. Paying per minute would incentivize people to stop charging once their charging power dips below a certain threshold, causing the overall efficiency of the charging stall to increase.
 
Can we temper expectations on some blowout Q4 results/deliveries?

  • There is no real reason to believe deliveries will increase much beyond Q3 regardless of team leaves read into ship loading. That may point to increased international deliveries but doesn't mean a proportional increase in US deliveries. I haven't seen anything to indicate some breakthrough in Fremont production this quarter and it doesn't look as if GF3 will contribute to deliveries in any meaningful way, so my guess is 98-102k.
  • Profits in Q3 were substantially driven by $30M and $143M regulatory credits, otherwise Tesla lost money. There is no reason to think those will be any less so I do anticipate another profitable quarter, just not a blow out.
I do think Tesla will post record deliveries and a profit in Q4, just not a crazy large one. I think they will make guidance for the year on deliveries (be a big miss if they didn't!) and I do think there are good tailwinds going into Q1 and anticipate a much better Q1 than last year. I just think we should avoid excess exuberance since I don't think there are any big things that will drive things to a huge quarter. I also think they would prefer to push some of that forward into Q1 rather than post, for example, $750M of deferred FSD revenue in Q4.

Long term, still really excited for developments next year.
 
BTW, to people dreaming of Cybertruck-shaped Model 3s and the like:

Elon Musk on Twitter

Musk thinks that with "extreme effort" they might be able to get the Cd "down to" 0,30. By contrast, Model 3 is 0,23. So even if you could get a Cybertruck-shaped Model 3 LR all the way down to 0,30, it would only have a range of 236mi (if rolling drag was also hurt due to those offroad-style tires; if tires are left unchanged, somewhere approaching 250mi). Worse if they can't get all the way down to Cd=0,30. E.g.: a Cyber-M3 LR would get worse range than an actual M3 SR+.

The efficiency also has all sorts of knock-on effects as usual:

Pack kept at the same size: Range, number of cycles put on the pack (longevity), depth of cycles (longevity), time spent charging when traveling, home charging times, charging costs (home, travel)

Pack enlarged: Cost, handling, max production rate (cell limits), even worse efficiency due to the added weight (and all of its knock-on effects), home charging times, charging costs, time spent charging when traveling where charger-limited, home charging times, charging costs (home, travel)

Vehicles are optimized to their intended roles. Cybertruck is a brave and brilliant optimization toward making a do-anything take-anything truck. That doesn't make it an ideal optimization towards any situation :) Tesla's brilliance is their willingness to throw off the expected and not get stuck in a design rut, but rather deal with every design challenge from a first-principles design approach.

But in terms of the company's future design language? 1) don't expect everything to be "cyber", but 2) expect the unexpected :)