Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
...Even if things are improving in China, I'm waiting for C19 wave to cross the US first, if it's bad, with large number of hospital bed shortages it will drag down all stocks regardless IMHO

1) Things improving in China is not an "if" unless you believe the reports are lying, which seems unlikely since I can't think of any motivation for it at this point.

2) I agree that stocks may react badly to hospital bed shortages, but be aware that the number of cases is gonna increase (in part or largely) because of increased testing. The market's reaction to more cases depends on whether folks like us understand this reason or sell in panic.

3) One more positive from the NY Times article:
About four out of five people known to have had the virus had only mild symptoms, and even among those older than 90 in Italy, 78 percent survived.
Opinion | The Best-Case Outcome for the Coronavirus, and the Worst
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lessmog
Folks blocked by the NYT paywall should be aware that @Ellec skipped over a lot of positive information to cherry-pick those scary quotes. I call this irresponsible, and will judge other posts by @Ellec accordingly.

Just a sample of the positive:


The article seems well-balanced and worth reading, so I'm glad @Ellec linked it. Folks using the Safari browser may be able to read it with the Show Reader command.
Also important i think to keep close tabs on the actual data as hundreds of articles are being written constantly and interpretations can stray far afield from the underlying empirical evidence. For the U.S., this database is updated each day at 4 pm eastern time with state by state and national results for number of tests run, number of positives, etc. The COVID Tracking Project Also useful is to calculate & track the % positive results from these numbers. my guess is we'll reach maximum fear this week, get hit with a terrible jobs report on Thursday and this is the floor as the corona stuff then becomes better understood since better data will provide solid estimates of spread rates and mortality rates in the U.S. At that point, we'll be dealing with much less uncertainty, we'll start to adjust & see some light at the end of the tunnel, and Tesla will be set to flourish in the post-corona world.
 
Here is a respected scientist with a completely different opinion:

Why this Nobel laureate predicts a quicker coronavirus recovery: ‘We’re going to be fine’

The point is: you can pick your researcher or scientist opinion to promote your doomsday scenarios. I can do the same for painting a much more rosy picture. Whatever the course will be, history will tell.

"Michael Levitt, a Nobel laureate and Stanford biophysicist, began analyzing the number of COVID-19 cases worldwide in January"

"Neil Morris Ferguson OBE FMedSci (born 1968) is a British epidemiologist.[2][3][4] He is a professor of mathematical biology, who specialises in the epidemiology of infectious disease spread in humans and animals. He is the director of the Abdul Latif Jameel Institute for Disease and Emergency Analytics (J-IDEA), head of the Department of Infectious Disease Epidemiology in the School of Public Health and Vice-Dean for Academic Development in the Faculty of Medicine, all at Imperial College, London. Ferguson uses mathematical modelling to provide data on several disease outbreaks including the swine flu outbreak in 2009 in the UK and the ebola epidemic in Western Africa in 2016. His work has also included research on mosquito-borne diseases including zika fever, yellow fever, dengue fever and malaria."

Yeah.. how about we pick the scientist who's actually a lifelong expert in the domain then?
 
Bureaucracy?
Also full cost reimbursement is backed into our system with little competition on price. Providers are used to dealing g with a small group of vendors with known sales reps. In fact unless it has dramatically changed a few years ago changes in need for ventilators was handled by rentals. Leaving providers to compete with each other in the US through only known channels is not a plan for effective allocation of supply.
 
I see that. But why can't hospitals just buy directly from Chinese makers?

Bureaucracy?

Agreed. From all appearances EM has an excellent relationship with the Chinese people/Government. I suspect that goes a long way towards getting things done quickly when it comes to Chinese products getting to the US.
 
TBH in this market, pretty much any buying or selling is just gambling. I'm sitting tight. Nobody can know where we go from here, so I'm not even checking my portfolio for the next few weeks.
Not just in this market, in any market. In the best of markets and in the worst of markets, it is virtually impossible to predict short term movements.

What we do know is that the market tends to go up, and quite strongly at that, over the long term. We also know that Tesla in particular is likely to have a very bright future, and that no one expects the current downturn to kill Tesla. Buying quality companies today is not gambling if you're going to be invested for the long term.

Personally, I've been selling index-like mutual fund shares and putting the proceeds into hand-picked stocks. Yes, our mutual funds are down, but not by as much as some favorite stocks. Markets like this are generally when stock picking shines. What's my favorite stock? The fact that I'm posting here ought to answer that question. ;)
 
I guess the market has decided that Tesla has been punished enough already. I did bail on my last near-ish term call (july 780) today. I'm somewhat optimistic that we will be doing ok by then, but nearly doubling in 4 months seems unlikely unless something truly magical happens with the virus. Shares and 2021-2022 leaps are still there. Fingers crossed.

0% 12+ month credit card balance transfers with 3% fee. So 3% effective first year. Or shift spending to a 0% intro rate card with minimum payments and use the difference to the full payment to buy stock.
Not advice.
I actually did this recently to pay off an outstanding loan. I have to cash to pay off the advances but have placed 50% in the market. The big risk is if you can't sell the investments for a profit by the time interest starts kicking.

Where are these loans? Haven't seen any personal loans that have less than 12% interest. (No collateral, 750+ credit score)
You can get a loan with lightstream or similar with rates at 8% or so, maybe better now.
 
I see so many posts that imply either to hold or sell, depending on how bad the situation gets. Only a few mention hedging. Have you hedged it and if not, why?

I hedged most of mine with SPY put spreads. Panic selloffs tend to be indiscriminate, so the value of my portfolio (including hedges) has been fairly stable this month.

Most importantly, I haven't had to sell core holdings like my TSLA shares. This has tax advantages, plus I don't need to time when to purchase them again.
 
upload_2020-3-23_14-56-25.png
 
I see so many posts that imply either to hold or sell, depending on how bad the situation gets. Only a few mention hedging. Have you hedged it and if not, why?
1. No expertise.
2. Not enough money to play with.
3. In the long run it won't make much difference.
4. I am very bad at timing the market.
5. I'm also better than 2X up.
 
I see that. But why can't hospitals just buy directly from Chinese makers?
Is it possible that since Fremont is a factory which imports parts from China, it is also a customs center? So, where a hospital would have to go through a local customs office and the associated delay and bureaucracy, Tesla can arrange a direct delivery to Fremont, get customs officials to sign off and ship items out. Perhaps that's how they got so many masks out to US hospitals over the weekend.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jhm
"Michael Levitt, a Nobel laureate and Stanford biophysicist, began analyzing the number of COVID-19 cases worldwide in January"

"Neil Morris Ferguson OBE FMedSci (born 1968) is a British epidemiologist.[2][3][4] He is a professor of mathematical biology, who specialises in the epidemiology of infectious disease spread in humans and animals. He is the director of the Abdul Latif Jameel Institute for Disease and Emergency Analytics (J-IDEA), head of the Department of Infectious Disease Epidemiology in the School of Public Health and Vice-Dean for Academic Development in the Faculty of Medicine, all at Imperial College, London. Ferguson uses mathematical modelling to provide data on several disease outbreaks including the swine flu outbreak in 2009 in the UK and the ebola epidemic in Western Africa in 2016. His work has also included research on mosquito-borne diseases including zika fever, yellow fever, dengue fever and malaria."

Yeah.. how about we pick the scientist who's actually a lifelong expert in the domain then?
Argue about this in the Coronavirus thread please.
 
I see so many posts that imply either to hold or sell, depending on how bad the situation gets. Only a few mention hedging. Have you hedged it and if not, why?

I hedged most of mine with SPY put spreads. Panic selloffs tend to be indiscriminate, so the value of my portfolio (including hedges) has been fairly stable this month.

Most importantly, I haven't had to sell core holdings like my TSLA shares. This has tax advantages, plus I don't need to time when to purchase them again.
I did for a bit but pulled out and stashed the profits. I figured out pretty quickly that I was not comfortable with risk that the market would go back up. Maye not rational, but it didn't feel right. I know the market will go up eventually, so holding short positions for more than a couple weeks felt stupid. Tesla also doesn't follow the market so I had days where my S&P 500 shorts AND TSLA long positions were down. :rolleyes:
 
I see so many posts that imply either to hold or sell, depending on how bad the situation gets. Only a few mention hedging. Have you hedged it and if not, why?

I hedged most of mine with SPY put spreads. Panic selloffs tend to be indiscriminate, so the value of my portfolio (including hedges) has been fairly stable this month.

Most importantly, I haven't had to sell core holdings like my TSLA shares. This has tax advantages, plus I don't need to time when to purchase them again.
Following @UnknownSoldier 's lead, I used SPY puts (280$) to a degree of success. My mistake was getting out too early, as I underestimated market's reaction.
This is a valid strategy, and I hope @UnknownSoldier can share an update for his 100$ puts...
 
  • Like
Reactions: saniflash
Why did he shut down all the Tesla shops at the same time?
This is again false. The announcement was to shut down retail stores and go 100% online sales. That didn't happen because Elon changed his mind, whereas TSLAQ never does: they always think they know everything, and everything is BAD, all the time.

IMHO, you read too much FUD. If you stare at the ditch, that's where you'll end up.

Advice.
 
This is again false. The announcement was to shut down retail stores and go 100% online sales. That didn't happen because Elon changed his mind, whereas TSLAQ never does: they always think they know everything, and everything is BAD, all the time.

And Elon said that was misinterpreted. They weren't planning on actually closing 100% of the stores, but even in the stores that remained open you would be directed to place the order yourself via your phone. (They wouldn't be taking/placing orders in store on a customers behalf.) So ordering would have been 100% online.
 
Yeah.. how about we pick the scientist who's actually a lifelong expert in the domain then?
This is going to be an interesting battle - that is just beginning.

Generally we have had epidemiologists and applied mathematicians in other fields who worked in silo. But with this pandemic affecting everyone, math experts in every field are going to be weighing in. Esp once models like the very important Imperial College model that is used by a number of governments to set policy will be opened up in the coming week. Already several math guys (like Nassim Taleb) are pointing out various short comings of the old SIR-type models.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Eugene Ash