Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Artful Dodger]

08:00 a.m. Whistle: Thu, 13 Aug 2020

• TSLA share price: $1,600.99 +46.23 +2.97%
• NASDAQ Pre-market Volume: 235,005
• NASDAQ-100 Futures: +26.00 +0.25% 08:08:54 ET

Comment: "Pre-Market Volume is High"

Cheers!

 

[Artful Dodger]

We just hit $1600 in premarket

$1,622.89 +$68.13 +4.38% 08:23 ET

 

[Navin]

Pls God let there be no TT007 posts today.

 

[LN1_Casey]

1,623.38 in premarket.

 

[H Mak]

$1,622.89 +$68.13 +4.38% 08:23 ET

I blame the guy on here who a few weeks ago discovered that pressing the F5 button causes the price to go up

 

[Tslynk67]

The Simulation glitching again...

 

[TheTalkingMule]

It would be nice if we had a Stock Split thread like a normal discussion forum. Should I just start asking the questions that have probably been answered 50 times in this thread somewhere 80 pages back?

 

[WarpedOne]

So, today we open @330?
No sparta for Us?

 

[charlesgres]

https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/i8saks/ive_been_taking_stock_market_chart_and_turning/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Nice fun stock chart as art..
Link above for Ford, with explanations..
Below one for Tesla:
TSLA year. Can you find the Easter Eggs? : Stoxart

 

[Krugerrand]

At this rate we’re going to need a stock split before the stock split.

 

[Knightshade]

If this was a dividend, it would be a 400% dividend, which is crazy.. and Tesla would have to finance the dividend, which of course they wouldn't.. it's your own shares that finance this 'dividend'.. [edit: so whatever the word used, it's not a dividend as dividend is understood: the company giving you an extra from their own pocket..]

Yes they absolutely could "finance" the dividend. This was explained earlier with links to the Delaware incorporation papers.

The finance for a STOCK dividend (not cash) would be based on the par value of the stock, not the equity/trading value of it. Which is a mere 0.01 per share.

The profit on like 15k pairs of short shorts would cover that (and that's assuming Tesla overpaid for the cost-price of the shorts)

(and would be an hilarious way to finance this too if it's really forcing short covers as many have suggested)


The fact folks are getting "we aren't really sure how this gets handled" from bankers and brokers in europe seems to reinforce the idea this LEGIT is a dividend not just a simple split- as there'd be nothing for them to figure out with a normal split... but a 400% stock dividend would be REALLY unusual and rare and require folks figuring stuff out if EU tax laws are as weird as has been suggested on dividends

 

[Bobbyducati]

have 1630c and 1750c lotto calls that i am extremely anxious for.... i never give much credence to premarket, but this is some big volume (630k at 8:52 est).

 

[Todd Burch]

I'm honestly wondering if a 5:1 split was not enough...maybe a 7 or 8:1 split would have been better. After the split, TSLA will already be more per share than FB and well on its way toward the per-share cost of AAPL & NFLX.

 

[elasalle]

2500-1500 = 1000
500-300 = 200
ratio for both 2500/1500 and 500/300 is 1.66
1st is before the split, the other is after. The latter seems more attainable though.
Thats the illusion here
(& why I might need to start focusing back on by CC's )

 

[vikings123]

have 1630c and 1750c lotto calls that i am extremely anxious for.... i never give much credence to premarket, but this is some big volume (630k at 8:52 est).

Yep reminds me of the Feb pre market spikes. MMs underestimating the impact of split? Sure feels like delta hedging, there is not many shorts left. I picked a bad day to go out golfing lol.

edit: let’s see what the last 30 minutes of premarket will bring us. I expect the volume to
pickup.

 

[FrankSG]

I'm honestly wondering if a 5:1 split was not enough...maybe a 7 or 8:1 split would have been better. After the split, TSLA will already be more per share than FB and well on its way toward the per-share cost of AAPL & NFLX.

Just do another 2:1 split in February. Problem solved.

 

[st_lopes]

FINALLY. Thank you!
I simply could not stay up all night and read all the posts since people write faster than I can read, but I had been waiting for someone to state this simple fact before I did. Now that that cat is out of the bag I can jump in:

Some folks (in Canada and Europe?) have been nervous about dividend tax of 15 or 25%. But Tax Man does not deal in securities, only money. How would you even go about to "pay" 15% of 4 shares, eh?

Not a problem, since the dividend is value neutral. It adds zero valuation (in and of itself). The churning of "investors" scrambling to locate the actual shares that they will owe on one particular date -- yes, that will most likely add a lot of valuation to TSLA, before that date. A whole other kettle of fish -- as tax goes.

So don't worry, be happy.

It’s extremely common to be taxed on “deemed” transactions in Canada and Europe. In other words, to owe tax when you don’t even have the capital to pay for that tax.

One very common example is when someone tries to break residency in their home country. You get taxed on the fair market value of nearly everything you own on date of termination of residency, because of a deemed disposition, whether the asset is liquid or not. Several founders have been devastated by that when leaving Canada to say go to Silicon Valley. They are on the hook for tax on their private company, illiquid shareholdings and there are not any real relief provisions absent you giving up the shares of your business before you leave.

As for this idea to use common sense, as a tax professional, common sense is that unless there are SPECIFIC provisions that say so, EVERY transaction is a taxable event. Stock dividends (whether as part of a split or not) are an acquisition of a new asset, and on paper, represent a conferral of a benefit to a shareholder. That would generally be a taxable event.

Fortunately, Canada has specific interpretations that seem to give us some relief in a split scenario. Absent that, we would have been deemed to acquire 4 new shares at their fair market value (not at 0.01, but at closing prices on 28/5), and we would not be deemed to dispose of our 1 share to offset the inclusion.

I can’t say that all our European friends will be in the same boat. So, I would suggest avoiding the generalities. Tax isn’t common sense. Tax codes in Europe were written centuries before those in the US (and are not modernized). US is actually one of the “younger” tax codes, and is one that is structured extremely differently than most other countries.

 

[StealthP3D]

Will be interesting to see if they try to push it down at opening...

I think there might be a problem with naked shorting over the next several days.

 

[Christine69420]

It would be nice if we had a Stock Split thread like a normal discussion forum. Should I just start asking the questions that have probably been answered 50 times in this thread somewhere 80 pages back?

No restrictions on making threads here. If you want a Stock Split thread feel free to make one.

 

[Vad42]

https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/i8saks/ive_been_taking_stock_market_chart_and_turning/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Nice fun stock chart as art..
Link above for Ford, with explanations..
Below one for Tesla:
TSLA year. Can you find the Easter Eggs? : Stoxart

View attachment 575720 View attachment 575719

Oh this is beautiful. I think I want a print of this...