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Its interesting to think that right now, one of the most anticipated product releases in years (cybertruck) is going through its initial ramp (which seems to be going fine), and the media are totally distracted by elons pay arrangements...
Nio and Xpeng both released fairly poor results, Tesla the company is doing pretty fine, and the media are looking the other way.
 
That's how these things are always talked about in this context. Everyone knows what it means to say "states".

If you don't like it, I suggest you petition the state.
And I object to that as well. It’s talked about like it is because it’s easier for people to accept when they think an inanimate object, an entity , a business, a state, the market is responsible for everything.

The truth is that PEOPLE are responsible. That’s not so easy for people to swallow. Starting with you suggesting I petition ‘the state’.
 
Its interesting to think that right now, one of the most anticipated product releases in years (cybertruck) is going through its initial ramp (which seems to be going fine), and the media are totally distracted by elons pay arrangements...
Nio and Xpeng both released fairly poor results, Tesla the company is doing pretty fine, and the media are looking the other way.
Who's Nio and Xpeng? Media only cares about the winners who can take on Tesla. Perhaps it's the underdog story people cares to read making Tesla the big bad guy since their valuation is all the car makers combined...but yeah it's almost like "China bad...except BYD because they are better than Tesla".
 
Agreed -- the board really messed this up. The 'independent' part is a red-herring... it just means that they aren't employees. All boards have relationships with other board members and usually officers. that's not prohibited. But there's clear processes that have to happen. Why doesn't the Tesla board have those processes? Do they even have a corporate lawyer to have caught this stuff?
 
I'll be shocked if you are right. I'm going to call it right now and say you are dead wrong.
What you post suggests that 9-share would have to pay the hourly rate of the attorneys. That's not happening unless he has some behind the scenes backing.
We really do need a lawyer here to explain why would anyone take such a case without any clearly defined monetary gains.
 
Its interesting to think that right now, one of the most anticipated product releases in years (cybertruck) is going through its initial ramp (which seems to be going fine), and the media are totally distracted by elons pay arrangements...
Nio and Xpeng both released fairly poor results, Tesla the company is doing pretty fine, and the media are looking the other way.
It's a pretty massive story. Certainly bigger than the reporting on month 3 of the CT launch from a news perspective. It's the reason why everyone here is talking about it as well.
 
There is no monetary judgement for the plaintiffs.

This is not a civil lawsuit for a cash award.

I'm sure the lawyers will be paid their hourly rates for the hours the case took them to develop and try- and they can ask the court to make someone pay that- but there's no cash judgement to get a set % of here.





55.6b is (roughly) the value of the options he would have been able to exercise from the compensation package. I think it was like 2.6B based on stock price when original deal was voting in though.





No, they will not. The decision was about if Elon gets the compensation in the deal or if nobody does.

The ONLY entity to directly benefit significantly from this judgement, financially, is Tesla. They get back the value of the options they had otherwise issued to Elon and already put on their books as a cost.

As I say lawyers can ask for fees of course.
 
And I object to that as well. It’s talked about like it is because it’s easier for people to accept when they think an inanimate object, an entity , a business, a state, the market is responsible for everything.

The truth is that PEOPLE are responsible. That’s not so easy for people to swallow. Starting with you suggesting I petition ‘the state’.
Lessee, in US courts, anyway the TV and movie ones, States attorney, or even Federal ones are referred to often as "The people". It is 'tilting at windmills' to argue such distinctions. Almost everyone knows that either 'the state' or 'the people' is/are represented by a single person or, sometimes several persons.

Rather than argue over nomenclatures that are all acceptable, we might rather be concerned with the content. There is trouble enough in that for us to debate fro some time, drifting into irrelevancy and destroying topic relevance in the process. /not really 's' but I wish it could be.
 
Its interesting to think that right now, one of the most anticipated product releases in years (cybertruck) is going through its initial ramp (which seems to be going fine), and the media are totally distracted by elons pay arrangements...
Nio and Xpeng both released fairly poor results, Tesla the company is doing pretty fine, and the media are looking the other way.
Meh. SSDD.
 
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Wow, I consider it rather ironic, and truly sickening, that the same judge who decided that Elon's $55 Billion dollar payout was "outrageous and excessive" could now possibly hand over billions to the plaintiff's ambulance-chasing lawyers! What about the damage that payout does to Tesla shareholders? Can we sue them? :rolleyes:
 
We really do need a lawyer here to explain why would anyone take such a case without any clearly defined monetary gains.

The lawyers will get paid their normal costs/fees at a minimum so it's not like they're working for free. Plus the press from winning the case is valuable.

They MAY be able to convince the judge to give them some additional amount based on the concept of significant benefit to shareholders, but that's much trickier here than in cases with actual financial/cash judgements, and if it's anything beyond normal and reasonable fees it certainly won't be 1/3rd of the speculative max value of the options or anything like that.




Just comes up a paywall for me. But I quoted some cases from a similar article (based on the headline anyway) earlier- which mostly was just rando lawyers speculating, plus mentioning two cases I already mentioned.... though in those there was a cash judgement to split up, which is NOT the case here....from the other story in the vein (dunno if it's same as yours due to yours being paywalled)

The fee award in this case will be more challenging, however, given that Mr Musk is simply returning shares he had been granted and that no cash is changing hands between the sides



Wow, I consider it rather ironic, and truly sickening, that the same judge who decided that Elon's $55 Billion dollar payout was "outrageous and excessive" could now possibly hand over billions to the plaintiff's ambulance-chasing lawyers! What about the damage that payout does to Tesla shareholders? Can we sue them? :rolleyes:

Again I don't think it'd be REMOTELY that big-- but the idea of such awards is the lawyers get a fraction of the amount they SAVED (or recovered) the shareholders.

A better case for this, also involving Tesla, is the one where board members agreed to return ~735 million bucks to the company from unfair compensation... if there was no lawsuit the shareholders would have gotten $0 back... so if the lawyers were given say 73.5 million (10% of the judgement) then the shareholders STILL come out 661.5 million dollars ahead in cash terms.... FWIW the award amount (for the lawyers) hasn't been decided on that one yet so that 10% is speculative, could be more could be less.


That's far tougher in Elons case given there's no cash involved here, just options that were never exercised and whose value can vary wildly with share price relative to when they would be exercised and thus it's harder to say what it actually "saves" the company exactly.
 
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In her ruling the judge called Musk's compensation an 'unfathomable sum.'.

What bearing does the amount have on if it's a legal agreement or not?

Seems a bit that feelings may have influenced the ruling to some degree.
Seems to me she started with the view that it was an “unfathomable sum”, and everything flowed from there. So almost by definition there is no possible legitimate way for someone to be rewarded an unfathomable sum thus something in the process had to be wrong. if you start there then pretty easy to find possible contributors that may have lead to that incorrect reward.

in fact once you start with that viewpoint, it’s impossible for any process to be legitimate (otherwise it wouldn’t have had that unfathomable result).
 
Lessee, in US courts, anyway the TV and movie ones, States attorney, or even Federal ones are referred to often as "The people". It is 'tilting at windmills' to argue such distinctions. Almost everyone knows that either 'the state' or 'the people' is/are represented by a single person or, sometimes several persons.

Rather than argue over nomenclatures that are all acceptable, we might rather be concerned with the content. There is trouble enough in that for us to debate fro some time, drifting into irrelevancy and destroying topic relevance in the process. /not really 's' but I wish it could be.
I object. 🤷🏻

I don’t believe people actually look at it that way anymore than our recent ranter looked at the mismatched car as a ONE Tesla employee blunder. The whole of the company was suddenly bad and thusly he wanted the entire company to pay for the mistake of ONE person.

It’s such and such political ‘party’. It’s such and such ‘company’ that screwed me over. It’s the ‘government’ that took away my rights. It’s the ‘courts’ that decide this or that. Put names and faces to it. Oh, can’t do that.

A 9 share holder just undid the votes of thousands holding millions of shares. Fair warning; I may tilt harder than usual for a few days.
 
Is there some sort of corporate tax burden that would occur if this were to happen; in other words, if it is advantageous for Tesla to do this (from a corporate tax point of view), why wouldn’t every other corporation that is headquartered in Delaware make the same move?
Tesla would hand over an additional 300 million dollars a year to Texas to incorporate there. It currently pays Delaware 200 thousand a year. That difference is three orders of magnitude.
 
Mod:

I deleted posts about heat sinks, including followups about LED lights and speakers.
I deleted posts about political parties and/or politicians, and followups.
I didn't delete posts alleging corruption but without identifying the supposedly corrupt parties other than the Chancery judge. This was probably a mistake on my part.
I probably make other mistakes, wrongly putting postings into the delete/don't buckets, but tough. Referee decision is final.

I would like discussion about Ford's charging adapter to stop here.
I think that everything about Elon's comp package has been said by one side or the other. So further back-and-forth should cease now. Only new information please, and thank you. That's a thinly veiled threat.

--ggr who had to actually read and parse over 600 messages.
 
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