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Tesla Turns Off AEB In New Cars Produced Since July

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Economite, Sep 10, 2017.

  1. Swift

    Swift Member

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    Sadly it is in this case. Indicative of the lack of focus, he tweets constant nonsense. I also just read that someone is selling “Elon Lies” shirts in the off-topic forum. Like I said, at least Jobs delivered.
     
  2. Swift

    Swift Member

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    I did understand your post but noted that you indeed went overboard and implied a socioeconomic bias on my part. I was about to thank you for your kind apology until your last point. I will take the higher road and not respond to that.
     
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  3. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    #283 stopcrazypp, Sep 13, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
    He doesn't always deliver. Just from a quick google (I don't follow apple much):
    Inside Apple: delays and manufacturing bottlenecks » Metue
    Steve Jobs Admits Temporary Defeat, Leopard Delayed
    White iPhone 4 Delayed Again … or Forever?
    Steve Jobs Says AirPrint Is A Giant Leap, More Printers To Be Supported Soon | Cult of Mac
    Missing In Action: Still No Printing From iPad Using Lion and iOS 5 [WWDC 2011 Reaction] | Cult of Mac
    In my google I found this gem again:
    Apple responds to iPhone 4 reception issues: you're holding the phone the wrong way
     
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  4. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

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  5. DeFries

    DeFries Member

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    Sure, 'Jobs delivered'. Maybe have a look at how Apple handled the big transition from OS 9 to the new OS X that Jobs had been talking about for ages. The new OS was years late, missing many promised features... sound familiar? Many Apple customers were disgruntled and unhappy back then. However, some realised how difficult it was what Jobs was trying to do and decided to stick with it.

    In Tesla's defense, at least they're actively improving their systems. With all other manufacturers, you get what you buy on day one and these systems will never see improvement. Want a better version? Buy a new car. While Tesla takes six weeks to learn from its fleet, other manufacturers take several model years of a car to finally deliver something that works. Of course they'll make sure that the original version more or less works as advertised, even though it may annoy the hell out of drivers.

    As an example, the Braking Guard system in my 2013 Audi A6 does work. The early warning system is nice and helpful. But when the car decides it needs to act, the actual braking is horrible. It has now kicked in 3 times while driving, and every time it was completely unnecessary and annoying, in one case even dangerous. However, it does perform its function so you can't complain there. Useful? No. Any chance of improvement? No.

    I actually prefer Tesla's way of doing it, as long as they inform me about changes.
     
  6. Swift

    Swift Member

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    #286 Swift, Sep 14, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
    Hahaha. There’s no comparison.

    For example, I’d be fine if the white Tesla was delayed, as long as the other colors of the car didn’t try and randomly kill me when I have EAP on.

    Putting it in perspective, Jobs was not known as the guy who didn’t deliver. People don’t talk about the concept of “Jobs Time”....
     
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  7. Swift

    Swift Member

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    I think most everyone here would agree with you on that.

    It’s the misleading marketing, absence of transparency, and the lack of communication that cause much of the discord here.
     
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  8. somnambule

    somnambule Member

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    The bias in your post was not implied. It was very explicit. The entire point was that Teslas need to be safer just because they are more expensive. Was there any other way to interpret what you said?
     
  9. alcibiades

    alcibiades Member

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    Yeah, there are tons of more charitable ways to interpret what he said. Yours is pretty much the only entirely bizarre way to interpret it.

    For example:
    Take 1:

    Person A: I think the cost of a Tesla should be reflected in its quality. And my disappointment is proportional to that cost.
    You: Person A thinks poor people's lives are worth less than the lives of the not-poor!

    Take 2:

    Person A: I think that one of the things that should increase as the cost of a car increases are safety features. Since less expensive cars have a certain feature, Teslas, which cost more, also should.
    You: Person A thinks poor people's lives are worth less than the lives of the not-poor!

    Take 3:

    Person A: I don't really know how upset people are about products I don't own, but I'm upset about how I feel the company from which I bought an expensive car is treating me and behaving. Oh, and this is a Tesla forum.
    You: Person A thinks poor people's lives are worth less than the lives of the not-poor!

    ANYWAY, back to the regularly scheduled excuse-making, red herrings, and non-sequiturs!
     
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  10. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    Car safety is nearly all related to the quality of a single inexpensive component.

    The quality of the nut that holds the steering wheel is responsible for nearly all fatalities.
     
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  11. somnambule

    somnambule Member

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    Take the reasoning a step further. Who is able to pay higher costs and be entitled to what should be a safer car?

    Look at the list of things I posted. It's not a matter of having fewer features in cheaper cars. It's significant failures in parts they do have. At no price point should a car simply die while being driven or have carbon monoxide seeping in to the cabin etc. What sort of a person would justify that as acceptable just because they are cheaper cars?

    That's a perfectly fine response, except that's not what the post I responded to said.
     
  12. Matias

    Matias Active Member

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    No. If they had validated AEB in AP 2.5 before releasing AP 2.5, this thread would not exist, because they hadn't yet released AP 2.5, because it is not ready. And new Teslas would have effective AEB which they at the moment don't have.

    This thread exists because they released AP 2.5 before it was ready.
     
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  13. alcibiades

    alcibiades Member

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    You are either being disingenuous or insane.
     
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  14. somnambule

    somnambule Member

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    #294 somnambule, Sep 14, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
    If you have a logical explanation of how anyone can justify the faults from other manufacturers I mentioned that can cause vehicles to stall on highways, catch fire, allow CO seepage into cabin etc. as acceptable because they are cheaper cars, I'm all ears. Or if you can explain how temporarily disabling AEB is more serious than those other issues, I'm even open to that.

    Or you could resort to ad hominem attacks. It's certainly easier.
     
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  15. croman

    croman Active Member

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    You can point to logic until you are blue in the face, but it won't work when the kool aid is flowing.
     
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  16. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    #296 McRat, Sep 14, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
    Money for Nothing (In Dire Straits)

    (background, faint)
    I want my AEB...
    I want my AEB...


    Now look at them yo-yo's that's the way you do it
    You play with software for the AEB
    It's not workin', that's the way they ship it
    Money for nothin' and some checks for free
    Now it still ain't workin', that's the way they did it
    Lemme tell ya dem guys off base
    Maybe get a blemish on your pretty nose-cone
    Maybe get an airbag in your face...

    (sorry that was too easy)
     
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  17. u00mem9

    u00mem9 Member

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    I just wanted to go on record that I do think the lives of rich people are worth more than the lives of the poor. I mean, the 'market' already decided their time is literally worth more than poor people.

    In fact, if there were a negligence suit against Tesla following a fatal accident where a missing AEB would have prevented the death, the lifetime earning potential of the rich owner would directly result in a higher settlement. So yeah, the courts would agree. (there could obviously be rich owners with low earning potential, but they would be outliers and probably safely at home anyway).

    :p
     
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  18. alcibiades

    alcibiades Member

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    I think, in agreement with my comrade above, that safety features should be egalitarian. Car companies should be forced to put in gratis any feature that increases the safety of passengers. For example, Tesla should not charge for EAP/FSD (when validated, wink-wink) as to charge for it is to say that the lives of poor(er) people are not worth as much.

    Furthermore, lest we be put with our backs against the wall ourselves, if we are to criticize one thing with a price, we must criticize everything similar below that price or else people won't know that we are unbiased against the poor.
     
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  19. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    I think a new thread is overdue here. Perhaps the title is "Shouldn't there be tax rebates for cars with better safety features?" It sounds interesting, just not in this thread.
     
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  20. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    And this is how you get a level of innovation less than the auto industry outside of Tesla. No thanks.

    Who would any company invest in R&D for a feature that will (a) cost them R&D, (b) result in liability when it has any behaviors deemed by litigation to be unsafe, (c) cost them hardware and labor to install, and (d) will never result in revenue growth?
     
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