Tesla YANKED FSD option without notice - Class Action lawsuit? Any Lawyers here? [Resolved]

[dark cloud]

It actually made our local news! It was with a model 3, but similar circumstances. Buyer beware.

Couple finds used Tesla 3 doesn't have autopilot

Beware of buying high-tech used vehicles

 

[Espicys]

EAP stays with the car unless Tesla took ownership of it at some point. Did Vroom advertise the car as having EAP?

Vroom didn't specifically list it in the features. There was just a picture of the software screen indicating EAP and Premium Connectivity was included. According to the Carfax, this was a lease vehicle, so I assume that mean that Tesla technically always had ownership of it until it was put up for sale by Vroom. Carfax lists 12/23/17 - 5/2/18 Registration issued/renewed & Titled as personal lease then 4/2/21 Vroom offers for sale. The whole lease is mostly why I haven't pursued it too much, but I dont know why Tesla wouldnt just remove it before they sold the car.

 

[MS-Alec]

Besides Alec, has anyone else been successful in getting Tesla to re-able w/e AP version was on the vehicle before they removed it?

Several people who contacted me through this forum were able to get it back from Tesla, as well, as one person got reimbursed by 3rd party dealer (really lucky) .

 

[dannycamps]

I dont know why Tesla wouldnt just remove it before they sold the car.

This is the whole point. When Tesla has the car in their possession, they could do whatever they want to it. Once Tesla no longer has the car (e.g. they send it to auction/third-party dealer/whatever), they should not be able to remove features the car already has as they no longer own the car. Potential buyers should not be penalized because Tesla doesn't have their sh*t together and is unable to properly manage used inventory.

The bigger question (and I'm sure I mentioned it somewhere in this thread) is the licensing for the software. Tesla is not clear about how their FSD licensing model works but it does not appear to follow a traditional type of software license. It will be very interesting to see what happens when(if) the FSD subscription model comes out.

 

[Pyre]

This is the whole point. When Tesla has the car in their possession, they could do whatever they want to it. Once Tesla no longer has the car (e.g. they send it to auction/third-party dealer/whatever), they should not be able to remove features the car already has as they no longer own the car. Potential buyers should not be penalized because Tesla doesn't have their sh*t together and is unable to properly manage used inventory.

The bigger question (and I'm sure I mentioned it somewhere in this thread) is the licensing for the software. Tesla is not clear about how their FSD licensing model works but it does not appear to follow a traditional type of software license. It will be very interesting to see what happens when(if) the FSD subscription model comes out.

Whats the probability that Tesla does not "know" the car has transitioned to a new owner for a month or so... I would assume there is a backlog of vehicles they want to remove stuff from.

 

[ks1972]

Whats the probability that Tesla does not "know" the car has transitioned to a new owner for a month or so... I would assume there is a backlog of vehicles they want to remove stuff from.

That’s irrelevant, Tesla sells its car to the third party as-is, and that’s how vroom or carvana is selling the car to a new buyer

 

[MS-Alec]

Whats the probability that Tesla does not "know" the car has transitioned to a new owner for a month or so... I would assume there is a backlog of vehicles they want to remove stuff from.

Most likely "Tesla does not "care to know""

 

[Pyre]

That’s irrelevant, Tesla sells its car to the third party as-is, and that’s how vroom or carvana is selling the car to a new buyer

Those dealer like entities who want to sell teslas (carvana, carmax) have to go through some "training" and I believe there is an agreement with those companies and tesla. We (the purchaser) do not know what that agreement is and I believe somewhere in it it states Tesla can revoke software rights or use.

I state this solely as the carmax manager told me it took "two years" of arbitration/conversation for Tesla to allow them to sell. For all we know tesla dictates what they can sell or buy them for.

I know this is hearsay but hear me out...


In a sense, owner sells car to carmax with FSD, carmax prior agreement says that tesla can revoke FSD when going 'through' carmax hands (revoking process may take months before Tesla learns car is in a non personal owner, so this is delay of revoking of FSD), while pictures are taken it shows FSD still. New purchaser buys car with pretense it has FSD due to picture of screen, month later during guys ownership the FSD revoked by tesla as tesla thinks its in Carmax hands as registration process is slow. And when people go argue to carmax that they dont have FSD then carmax may be forking over money to cover as carmax sold car knowing their agreement states tesla can revoke FSD rights.

If tesla says FSD is going to go up in price in time why would they want that to appreciate in someones sale processes.

 

[ks1972]

Those dealer like entities who want to sell teslas (carvana, carmax) have to go through some "training" and I believe there is an agreement with those companies and tesla. We (the purchaser) do not know what that agreement is and I believe somewhere in it it states Tesla can revoke software rights or use.

I state this solely as the carmax manager told me it took "two years" of arbitration/conversation for Tesla to allow them to sell. For all we know tesla dictates what they can sell or buy them for.

I know this is hearsay but hear me out...


In a sense, owner sells car to carmax with FSD, carmax prior agreement says that tesla can revoke FSD when going 'through' carmax hands (revoking process may take months before Tesla learns car is in a non personal owner, so this is delay of revoking of FSD), while pictures are taken it shows FSD still. New purchaser buys car with pretense it has FSD due to picture of screen, month later during guys ownership the FSD revoked by tesla as tesla thinks its in Carmax hands as registration process is slow. And when people go argue to carmax that they dont have FSD then carmax may be forking over money to cover as carmax sold car knowing their agreement states tesla can revoke FSD rights.

If tesla says FSD is going to go up in price in time why would they want that to appreciate in someones sale processes.

I don’t think Tesla can legally remove software options if it doesn’t take possession of the car.

 

[Pyre]

I don’t think Tesla can legally remove software options if it doesn’t take possession of the car.

If Tesla somehow got retail/corporate companies who plan to resell the cars for profit to sign a legal document stating tesla can revoke software rights, then I think they can. At least I would "think" they (Tesla) can legally enforce it until a court dismisses the document as it screws the end user lol.

Same thing with "right to repair." If thats still a thing for Tesla

 

[Pyre]

Just because you can, does not mean its right I would say lol

 

[ks1972]

If Tesla somehow got retail/corporate companies who plan to resell the cars for profit to sign a legal document stating tesla can revoke software rights, then I think they can. At least I would "think" they (Tesla) can legally enforce it until a court dismisses the document as it screws the end user lol.

Same thing with "right to repair." If thats still a thing for Tesla

I didn’t think there are retailers who want to sell cars for anything other than profits

 

[Pyre]

I didn’t think there are retailers who want to sell cars for anything other than profits

Maintenance shops may not care about profit on vehicle sale, more money in labor for repairing.


Still, be open minded that Tesla seemingly 'can' revoke software rights prior to the end user accepting it. People here are just getting their software removed a little too late. I have not found a single retailer selling a car and stating "look it has EAP or FSD." Its almost always inferred from a picture of date of build.

 

[tccartier]

That’s irrelevant, Tesla sells its car to the third party as-is, and that’s how vroom or carvana is selling the car to a new buyer

Do we know that these cars are actually sold and the title is transferred to these third-party entities that are marketing used Tesla vehicles or are they simply consignment units that Tesla still actually owns until such time as the vehicle is sold by what may essentially be a broker. What proof do we have that vroom or carvana actually own the vehicles they are selling or this vehicle in particular?

 

[MS-Alec]

Do we know that these cars are actually sold and the title is transferred to these third-party entities that are marketing used Tesla vehicles or are they simply consignment units that Tesla still actually owns until such time as the vehicle is sold by what may essentially be a broker. What proof do we have that vroom or carvana actually own the vehicles they are selling or this vehicle in particular?

The title is serving as a legal document where ownership changes are recorded, isn't it?

 

[ks1972]

Do we know that these cars are actually sold and the title is transferred to these third-party entities that are marketing used Tesla vehicles or are they simply consignment units that Tesla still actually owns until such time as the vehicle is sold by what may essentially be a broker. What proof do we have that vroom or carvana actually own the vehicles they are selling or this vehicle in particular?

You can actually find that information in car fax reports

 

[Spiegels]

I’m in the middle of this exact situation. I bought a 2020 LR Plus Model S last month. It was sold by a used car dealer who goes to auctions and buys many Tesla vehicles (and has for years). The car I bought was leased to a Tesla employee. The dealer is well known to Tesla. It was sold as having FSD.

when I finally got the registration documents last week and moved the ownership to me, the Tesla app shows Autopilot only, no FSD. The seller agrees they sold me a vehicle with FSD but doesn’t want to pay me to buy it because they thought they bought the behicle

So, after 5 weeks of ownership, they are refunding all of my money and unwinding the sale.

I did call Tesla today and asked them what their view of this was and the CS rep acknowledged that the car still has FSD but my ownership shows Tesla does not consider that I have it as part of my vehicle.

I’m sure in a update, the FSD will disappear. The Tesla rep told me to give him two days to let the “account managers” decide whether I should or shouldn’t have FSD. I’m not expecting them to give it to me but before we “unwind” the deal, I thought I would try.

If not, the car will be shipped from Seattle back to San Diego at the dealer’s expense and I will get my money refunded.

A huge waste of time and money for both parties.

 

[Spiegels]

I’m in the middle of this exact situation. I bought a 2020 LR Plus Model S last month. It was sold by a used car dealer who goes to auctions and buys many Tesla vehicles (and has for years). The car I bought was leased to a Tesla employee. The dealer is well known to Tesla. It was sold as having FSD.

when I finally got the registration documents last week and moved the ownership to me, the Tesla app shows Autopilot only, no FSD. The seller agrees they sold me a vehicle with FSD but doesn’t want to pay me to buy it because they thought they bought the behicle

So, after 5 weeks of ownership, they are refunding all of my money and unwinding the sale.

I did call Tesla today and asked them what their view of this was and the CS rep acknowledged that the car still has FSD but my ownership shows Tesla does not consider that I have it as part of my vehicle.

I’m sure in a update, the FSD will disappear. The Tesla rep told me to give him two days to let the “account managers” decide whether I should or shouldn’t have FSD. I’m not expecting them to give it to me but before we “unwind” the deal, I thought I would try.

If not, the car will be shipped from Seattle back to San Diego at the dealer’s expense and I will get my money refunded.

A huge waste of time and money for both parties.

An update on my FSD. Did it go away or did it stay?

here’s Tesla response...

I just wanted to reach out and let you know that I received word back from the supporting team regarding the autopilot configuration on your vehicle. Unfortunately, since this vehicle was purchased wholesale, the full self drive package was removed as part of that process. For some reason that just wasn't reflected in the vehicle's user interface. wanted to reach out and let you know that I received word back from the supporting team regarding the autopilot configuration on your vehicle. Unfortunately, since this vehicle was purchased wholesale, the full self drive package was removed as part of that process. For some reason that just wasn't reflected in the vehicle's user interface.

The vehicle will now be returned to the seller at a cost of at least $4k to them plus any legal fees they incur to battle Tesla on this. What a waste!

 

[Espicys]

Tesla is also refusing to do anything in my situation. Tesla sold the car at auction in Dec2020/JAN2021. Then it was sold again in APR 2021 at auction, where I bought it from Vroom pretty much immediately. I have the original Monroney Sticker showing EAP is included as well as photos of me taking delivery of the vehicle with EAP active/installed. Had the car for 3 days until it was finally added to my Tesla account and they removed EAP. I've chatted with support multiple times, requested supervisor return contact, but they wont budge. The car was not specifically advertised by Vroom as having EAP, but to me, it is the principle of modifying/taking things off the vehicle that Tesla no longer owned. If they would have removed it from the car right when they sold it or anytime before I purchased the car and took possession of the car...you wouldnt hear a peep from me. At the very least, they need to change the way they handle used cars so that potential (or past buyers) that arent aware of how they operate get pinched. Fact is, as innovative and advanced as Tesla is, you are telling me they really cant remove EAP/FSD at the moment they put the car up for sale?

If you buy a used car that shows it has the upgraded wheel package or trim package, you expect to get that. Once you make the purchase and take delivery and those options are still there, the dealer or manufacturer can't come running saying you didnt pay for those and take them back. Initially, I wasnt that upset about it, but the more I think about it angers me and I consider it stealing. Again, if they would have removed EAP/FSD anytime between the 4-5 months that the car was being sold...no issue, but once I or any buyer bought it, different story.

I haven't given up yet, but I hope at the very least they change the way this works. Have a disclaimer on the s/w screen that indicates that AP version is subject to removal...or something. However, what is to stop them from doing the same thing with other options that can be software disabled? Premium sound, weather package, etc. They could say I also didnt pay for those and have the software disable those features right?

 

[Pyre]

Tesla is also refusing to do anything in my situation. Tesla sold the car at auction in Dec2020/JAN2021. Then it was sold again in APR 2021 at auction, where I bought it from Vroom pretty much immediately. I have the original Monroney Sticker showing EAP is included as well as photos of me taking delivery of the vehicle with EAP active/installed. Had the car for 3 days until it was finally added to my Tesla account and they removed EAP. I've chatted with support multiple times, requested supervisor return contact, but they wont budge. The car was not specifically advertised by Vroom as having EAP, but to me, it is the principle of modifying/taking things off the vehicle that Tesla no longer owned. If they would have removed it from the car right when they sold it or anytime before I purchased the car and took possession of the car...you wouldnt hear a peep from me. At the very least, they need to change the way they handle used cars so that potential (or past buyers) that arent aware of how they operate get pinched. Fact is, as innovative and advanced as Tesla is, you are telling me they really cant remove EAP/FSD at the moment they put the car up for sale?

If you buy a used car that shows it has the upgraded wheel package or trim package, you expect to get that. Once you make the purchase and take delivery and those options are still there, the dealer or manufacturer can't come running saying you didnt pay for those and take them back. Initially, I wasnt that upset about it, but the more I think about it angers me and I consider it stealing. Again, if they would have removed EAP/FSD anytime between the 4-5 months that the car was being sold...no issue, but once I or any buyer bought it, different story.

I haven't given up yet, but I hope at the very least they change the way this works. Have a disclaimer on the s/w screen that indicates that AP version is subject to removal...or something. However, what is to stop them from doing the same thing with other options that can be software disabled? Premium sound, weather package, etc. They could say I also didnt pay for those and have the software disable those features right?

I am curious how this will end!