Tesla's response to me leaking info about the P100D?

[mlindner]

As an enthusiast, yah totally, release ALL THE SECRETS!
As a stockholder, no, do not Osborne Tesla.

As a fellow stockholder, wk057 and anyone else should be doing their due diligence to keep Tesla on it's toes and release any and all found information. This helps improve the company by instilling better practices. A sloppy software company is a dead software company.

I'm not worried about leaks of future product releases. I'm worried about system-wide remote access exploits that allow external users to sabotage the cars while they are driving. If you want to see a stock crash faster than you wouldn't believe that would how it would happen. Put the fear of God (hackers) in the programmers so they don't let anything leak.

 

[Johan]

As a fellow stockholder, wk057 and anyone else should be doing their due diligence to keep Tesla on it's toes and release any and all found information. This helps improve the company by instilling better practices. A sloppy software company is a dead software company.

AKA: Tough love

 

[redevries]

[irony]Yeah, like he wants to. Or even needs to. [/irony]

I'm sure Volkswagen could use his services

I'm wondering if Elon's Tweet was picked somewhere in Tesla. He tends to micromanage things, from what I read. So either Jason will be left alone or the dreaded caravan of black model X-es will finally show up...

 

[srthomas21]

I'm sure Volkswagen could use his services

I'm wondering if Elon's Tweet was picked somewhere in Tesla. He tends to micromanage things, from what I read. So either Jason will be left alone or the dreaded caravan of black model X-es will finally show up...

LOL, made me smile.

 

[WarpedOne]

My college age daughter believes this is actually guerrilla-war marketing by Tesla. The plant was intentional, and put there with the knowledge someone would find it. And the ninja attck response only expands the on-line buzz. Free advertising for the new model. Maybe Jason's being used in a great marketing conspiracy!

Exactly.
wk057 is just a pawn well played.

 

[Johan]

I'm sure Volkswagen could use his services

I'm wondering if Elon's Tweet was picked somewhere in Tesla. He tends to micromanage things, from what I read. So either Jason will be left alone or the dreaded caravan of black model X-es will finally show up...

Yup! Tesla's software team better react instantly or they can go look for new jobs tomorrow. Elon grinds through people like that.

 

[Johan]

Exactly.
wk057 is just a pawn well played.

They couldn't control what/when he'd choose to publish something (he has had this kind of inside info for +2 months already... Or do Tesla employ psychics too?

 

[jerry33]

Anyone who has followed Tesla for more than about ten minutes knows that battery capacity will increase. Elon said so a very long time ago. The question is when, and WK57 didn't release any dates. Except for the downgrading response, this is hardly newsworthy. People who take the time to look find items like this all the time. Happens in the Apple world regularly.

 

[WarpedOne]

They couldn't control what/when he'd choose to publish something (he has had this kind of inside info for +2 months already... Or do Tesla employ psychics too?

I said a pawn, not the king.
It was not planted for wk, it was planted for *someone*, anyone to find.
They know there are many people looking. And wk did it in the best way possible... direct tweet at elon, for whole world to see and react.

Remember outcry at AP introduction? People bitching relentlessly by missing the upgrade by a week? Same with D, seats, 90, 70, etc.
Now they won't have anything to bitch about, the hint it is out there, 100 is coming. And
yet it is not firm enough so people cannot pinpoint exactly when it will come, so they won't be postponing the orders that much.

But that is just my theory, anyone may worship wk if he so chooses.

 

[bonnie]

As a fellow stockholder, wk057 and anyone else should be doing their due diligence to keep Tesla on it's toes and release any and all found information. This helps improve the company by instilling better practices. A sloppy software company is a dead software company.

Q: What's the difference between a white hat releasing found information publicly and a black hat doing the same thing?

A: Absolutely. Nothing. The real white hat informs the company privately. If you believe there is a real security risk to users and the company isn't doing anything, then you release publicly.

-------- And only wk can answer this (and just idle curiosity on my part, tbh): Since wk claims to have had this information for several weeks, what was the rationale for releasing it now?

 

[lklundin]

Is it legal to hack and publish information obtained that way?

This is reverse engineering of legally obtained software.
In the USA this in itself is not illegal.
So the only way it can be illegal is if the user agreed to a end user license agreement that expressly forbids it - in which case there is a breach of contract between the user and the owner of the software.
So what does the contract between Tesla Motors and a Tesla Model S owner look like?
PS. IANAL.

 

[jgs]

They couldn't control what/when he'd choose to publish something (he has had this kind of inside info for +2 months already... Or do Tesla employ psychics too?

Yeah. The guerrilla marketing hypothesis runs afoul of Occam's razor and its special case, Hanlon's razor, "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity". (Though neither "malice" nor "stupidity" is quite right to describe Tesla in this instance, but the restatement "cock-up before conspiracy" seems to get it.)

- - - Updated - - -

So the only way it can be illegal is if the user agreed to a end user license agreement that expressly forbids it - in which case there is a breach of contract between the user and the owner of the software.
So what does the contract between Tesla Motors and a Tesla Model S owner look like?
PS. IANAL.

Yes, exactly. As I mentioned earlier, AFAIK (and I did go looking around the time I made my purchase), there is what in legal circles is called "sweet f**k-all" in terms of relevant contract language.

P.S. Me neither.

 

[gsxdsm]

It's clearly coming in April. Price increase. Mode 3 reveal.

 

[santana338]

And only wk can answer this (and just idle curiosity on my part, tbh): Since wk claims to have had this information for several weeks, what was the rationale for releasing it now?

Not to answer for wk, but it looked to me like he wasn't planning to release anything, just post some ecrypted teaser. But the encryption was broken way faster than he thought and the beans were spilled.

 

[patrick42h]

Anyone who has followed Tesla for more than about ten minutes knows that battery capacity will increase. Elon said so a very long time ago. The question is when, and WK57 didn't release any dates. Except for the downgrading response, this is hardly newsworthy. People who take the time to look find items like this all the time. Happens in the Apple world regularly.

I agree. I don't think a 100-kWh battery pack is particularly newsworthy, since incremental improvements like that are to be expected. IMO, the real story is how Tesla handled the situation.

 

[Andyw2100]

-------- And only wk can answer this (and just idle curiosity on my part, tbh): Since wk claims to have had this information for several weeks, what was the rationale for releasing it now?

I'm pretty sure he did address this up thread somewhere. (I'll look for the post and come back and edit if I find it.) But as I recall, he said that there had been references to the 100D for quite some time, but in the most recent firmware version Tesla had included the actual icons that would be used on the screens. So because they did that, he figured the announcement must be imminent. Implied in that statement is that by waiting until the announcement was close he was doing that so as not to harm (or to greatly minimize any harm to) Tesla.

Edit: I wrote up thread, but checking I see it may have been in a different thread. I'll find it!

Edit 2: Two posts, from a different thread--

There have been references to the P100D in firmwares as early as 2 months ago. They finally added the badges to 2.13.77. I mucked it up a bit by adding a crappy background (it's a PNG with transparency in the firmware)... I'm no artist. lol.

Yeah, I debated on it quite a bit. I figure if the badge is finally there, they must be close. I figured saying anything about it too early could potentially be an issue for them.

There are quite a few things that are in the firmware that I'm not prepared to share publicly. Just like the P100D has been in there for months with my lips mostly sealed. I don't want to spoil all of Tesla's surprises.

 

[TexasEV]

Anyone who has followed Tesla for more than about ten minutes knows that battery capacity will increase. Elon said so a very long time ago. The question is when, and WK57 didn't release any dates. Except for the downgrading response, this is hardly newsworthy. People who take the time to look find items like this all the time. Happens in the Apple world regularly.

Finally a reasoned response from someone other than Bonnie. I fail to see why the mention of a future P100D is news. When the 90 was announced Elon said to expect increases in battery capacity on average of about 5% per year. He also said the increase from 85 to 90 wasn't enough for people to upgrade unless they're routinely at the edge of their range and that they should wait for a future larger battery. So whether it's a 95, 100, or whatever, anyone who follows Tesla knows a larger battery is coming. We just didn't know when, and we still don't.

 

[patrick42h]

Q: What's the difference between a white hat releasing found information publicly and a black hat doing the same thing?

A: Absolutely. Nothing. The real white hat informs the company privately. If you believe there is a real security risk to users and the company isn't doing anything, then you release publicly.

Bonnie, what security risk does posting an encrypted version of the string "P100D" pose to Tesla or its customers?

 

[Andyw2100]

Finally a reasoned response from someone other than Bonnie. I fail to see why the mention of a future P100D is news. When the 90 was announced Elon said to expect increases in battery capacity on average of about 5% per year. He also said the increase from 85 to 90 wasn't enough for people to upgrade unless they're routinely at the edge of their range and that they should wait for a future larger battery. So whether it's a 95, 100, or whatever, anyone who follows Tesla knows a larger battery is coming. We just didn't know when, and we still don't.

Hey! dhanson865 and I made the same points hours ago!

Possible, it still amazes me that people are surprised about news of a new pack capacity considering JB and Elon talk about it several times a year every year.

Exactly!

As I've been getting caught up on this, the fact that the information that has become public due to wk057's tweet is really not in any way surprising, earth-shattering information has been at the forefront of my thoughts. Tesla had just discontinued the 85 pack. Anyone paying attention would know that a new, larger pack was coming soon. Sure, perhaps we wouldn't have known whether it would be a 95, a 100, or something a little larger, but it's not as if the leaked information indicated a 130kW pack was due out in a week. In some sense I view this as much ado about nothing.

 

[PaulusdB]

...We just didn't know when, and we still don't.

The P100D icon being included in current firmware updates leads me to believe that these s/w versions are tested on actual P100D cars.
So how long does it take the see a new version in the configurator after that. (Now very long, I'd guess.)

- - - Updated - - -

Yup! Tesla's software team better react instantly or they can go look for new jobs tomorrow. Elon grinds through people like that.

The name Kristin Paget comes to mind, though.