Things my wife said about Navigate on Autopilot tonight

[groovidad]

Wouldn’t it be easier to just “drive” the car and wait for refinement of the AP feature? I get that Tesla collects data but, it just seems a bit much to consternate over.

 

[hocr]

Wife: "Why is it so jerky?"

Me: "Well, it can decelerate somewhat abruptly while on freeway interchanges..."

Wife: "It's not just around corners, it's all the time on the freeway; why do you use it if it is so bad?"

Me: "Well, I'm trying it out; I think maybe you notice less if you're driving"

Wife: "Well, I notice it. It's ok to try it out if you're the only one in the car, but it isn't cool to do it otherwise"

Me: ...

Wife: If you keep trying to use it, I'm going to stop riding in this car, and we're going to have to take my car*. It's not relaxing.

Me: <disengages Autopilot for remainder of trip>

<a couple minutes pass>

Wife: It's much smoother now. Did you turn it off?

Me: Yes, I did.

Wife: I'm much more relaxed now.


* My wife's car is a Chevrolet Spark EV. That tells you something.

You can't make this stuff up!

Here's hoping that Tesla discovers low pass filters soon.

Men everywhere feel your pain lol

 

[Fernand]

I think that over time we are merging, physiologically, with our extensions. We use glasses, smartphones and hearing aids. We don't normally control our breathing or other functions of our autonomic nervous system. Awareness takes over as needed, in response to atypical conditions. For instance hyperventilating to pump more oxygen. Or overriding the AP. Or using a smartphone to get info. That's how I see the Tesla.

At depths over 1000 ft, divers who work down there have to breathe 100% voluntarily. There are lights etc to remind them. It's a tough job. That's how I see freeway commuting in manual. I love driving on a country road, but that grunt work? F'get about it. Happy to let my Nicky handle the details.
.

 

[Fernand]

Oh, and FWIW, Wife and I have evolved a modus vivendi: I don't criticize her driving, and she doesn't criticize ours. [Nicky and I] drive like she's not there. When she drives, I shut up. Works wonders.

After all, if Nicky tries something jerky, or I whip it, I don't care. So why should wife #1 bark at ME?
.

 

[TeeEmCee]

Here's hoping that Tesla discovers low pass filters soon.

^^^ This!

I’ve been driving our Golf for the last few days and it does just that. Slows down gradually and gets back to cruise speed gently. It feels outright luxurious compared to the Tesla. I don’t know how a similar US-spec unit would feel, but ours suits EU freeway driving very very well.

Tesla would do well to adjust their automatic acceleration rate a bit, or perhaps make it configurable. I don’t know that they can do much about the automatic deceleration as that depends on obstacle recognition which is pretty poor compared to a radar/lidar-augmented system.

 

[TeeEmCee]

That's how I see freeway commuting in manual. I love driving on a country road, but that grunt work? F'get about it. Happy to let my Nicky handle the details.
.

Sellout! Blasphemer!

Get the firewood and ready the stake!

 

[Octo]

That's how I see freeway commuting in manual. I love driving on a country road, but that grunt work? F'get about it. Happy to let my Nicky handle the details.
.

Just don’t flirt with sexY Heather when you first see her on a highway. Spurned Nicky will happily crash drive you into the next fire truck for revenge.

 

[Msjulie]

LOL! Brother, you’re not alone! I have an optional speed limiter in my 3 called “Wife Mode”. Sudden bursts of acceleration while responding to traffic situations engages “Wife Mode”. I’ve contacted our Tesla SC with a trouble ticket. They told me they couldn’t help, and recommended I “uninstall” myself. Unfortunately, the only way to disengage “Wife Mode” is to remove the front passenger and rear bench seats.

Wait, I didn't know there was irritating spouse (you've got the name wrong) mode!? How do I get it removed?

 

[Dr. J]

Oh, and FWIW, Wife and I have evolved a modus vivendi: I don't criticize her driving, and she doesn't criticize ours. [Nicky and I] drive like she's not there. When she drives, I shut up. Works wonders.

After all, if Nicky tries something jerky, or I whip it, I don't care. So why should wife #1 bark at ME?
.

Wife #1? Are you already planning on a #2, #3 or #4 to come?

 

[Enginerd]

As described above, they need to take the "edges" off of the acceleration. No sudden changes in acceleration...just ease into it. This does not mean you can't accelerate as quickly - you can compensate for the slower onset by having slightly higher peak acceleration/deceleration - and it would probably feel better. There are probably practical or safety reasons for why they haven't yet smoothed it - but who knows.

I think we're seeing hints of smoothing when people merge or cut in. In recent firmware versions, the car responds by slowly restoring following distance, instead of the instantaneous response you get when the car ahead of you abruptly slows down. If they can apply this behavior to more aspects of the driving task, we'll all be happier.

 

[Electroman]

Wouldn’t it be easier to just “drive” the car and wait for refinement of the AP feature? I get that Tesla collects data but, it just seems a bit much to consternate over.

What..? Regular AP as of today is fantastic. It takes a bit of patience to understand the nuances and edge cases, but it does an amazing job of reducing stress.

I am guessing you haven't driven much with AP, and hence this comment?

NoAP on the other hand, has promises, but I am not sure I need the car to automatically change lanes for me. Regular AP does almost all I want. I am quite happy with it. My main beef with NoAP even with 'Speed based lane changes' is OFF:

- Wants to changes lanes for no reason. For instance, as I turn it on driving on the right lane with only 2 miles to get to the exit, as a human I would continue on that lane. But, NoAP wants to come to the middle lane, and then after 30 seconds realizes the exit is near and wants to shift right again.

- Most annoying, is the fact, that it does not want take the opportunity to shift when there is a big gap, but instead waits to shift further down the road, and the easy opportunity is lost.

 

[Octo]

What..? Regular AP as of today is fantastic. It takes a bit of patience to understand the nuances and edge cases, but it does an amazing job of reducing stress.

I am guessing you haven't driven much with AP, and hence this comment?

For me personally, the main issue that I have with AP is that I don’t trust the current vision system to the extent that I would feel comfortable going 70mph.

I always feel like I need to be prepared to step on the accelerator to avoid someone rear ending me in case it phantom brakes out of the blue.

I always feel like I need to be prepared to brake when it decides to accelerate inappropriately totally disregarding traffic conditions.

I always feel like I need to be prepared to yank the steering wheel in case it misidentifies lanes and wants to crash into a stationary object like a concrete barrier.

So it’s SUPER stressful for me because the system is based on really poor sensor processing and I value my life and the life of others more than the tiny benefit of a computer keeping my car in the lane. I just do not think the enormous risk is worth the tiny, tiny benefit.

Yeah, it mostly keeps it centered in the lane if the markings are good. I understand that this can get people to think that it is “fantastic”. I urge caution.

 

[Msjulie]

What..? Regular AP as of today is fantastic. It takes a bit of patience to understand the nuances and edge cases, but it does an amazing job of reducing stress.

I am guessing you haven't driven much with AP, and hence this comment?

I've used it and I find it increases stress, mine and my passengers. I keep trying to use it each new release, some things improved others not; it's completely reasonable for people to have differing opinions as to whether or not they view AP as an improvement or not... glad it works for you but there's nothing wrong with me if I find that it doesn't work well for us..

 

[DrDabbles]

Oh, and if you are tired of your car beeping at you (lane keep assist, emergency braking etc...) maybe your car is telling you that you have bad driving habits lol. Things like using your signal for lane change and not leaving braking until the last second will almost completely avoid 'unnecessary' warning chimes. YMMV, but I've never had any of the warnings come up except where someone in front of me did something that could have led to an accident and needed my attention immediately.

Have you even been in a Tesla? Hahaha. Oh man the amount of chimes and noises it makes are so many that Elon has gone on Twitter to say that they're going to introduce "Joe mode", what ever that means.

The default setting for early collision warning simply does not work in multi-lane urban and sub-urban driving. When you approach stopped traffic from a lane that isn't stopped, the alert sounds itself. When someone slows in front of you to make a turn, unless you're already off the accelerator it sounds the alert. I set the warning to "medium" because it was absurd in "early", and even the mid setting was ridiculous. I turned it off because I'm a safe driver and I don't need it. Not because I'm having close calls, but because the system is foolish. The former CEO of MobilEye has given a half dozen conference talks about this, as it happens, so I'm certainly not alone in thinking early alert systems are overly aggressive for real world scenarios.

God help you if you're approaching a stopped lane on the left with vehicles parked on the right, the system just goes insane.

 

[BrandonLive]

I’ve had very different experiences, including the other night when I picked up my mom and stepdad from the airport. My stepdad sat up front and had some idea of what was going on, but my mom had no idea until we were almost home that it wasn’t just me driving (because we started talking about the car). She even asked “does yours have that?” at some point, and was amazed to learn it had been doing all the work including lane changes for the 20+ minute trip to that point.

I’ve had similar experiences with co-workers and friends. It’s only in rare cases where it aborts a lane change and abruptly shifts back, or is too aggressive about slowing to let a car merge in, that anyone ever asks “what was that?” or “was that you or the car?”

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

A bit off topic from the NoA, but I don’t have a similar experience on this FCW topic...

When you approach stopped traffic from a lane that isn't stopped, the alert sounds itself.

I have never had this happen.

When someone slows in front of you to make a turn, unless you're already off the accelerator it sounds the alert.

I’ve had this happen a couple times, but generally I have felt it to be appropriate, given the high sensitivity I use.

I set the warning to "medium" because it was absurd in "early"

I use the most sensitive setting. Generally I am happy with it. It will trigger a couple times a week at most, but I find it to be appropriate - they are situations where there could be a collision if I were not attentive.

 

[BrandonLive]

Have you even been in a Tesla? Hahaha. Oh man the amount of chimes and noises it makes are so many that Elon has gone on Twitter to say that they're going to introduce "Joe mode", what ever that means.

The default setting for early collision warning simply does not work in multi-lane urban and sub-urban driving. When you approach stopped traffic from a lane that isn't stopped, the alert sounds itself. When someone slows in front of you to make a turn, unless you're already off the accelerator it sounds the alert. I set the warning to "medium" because it was absurd in "early", and even the mid setting was ridiculous. I turned it off because I'm a safe driver and I don't need it. Not because I'm having close calls, but because the system is foolish. The former CEO of MobilEye has given a half dozen conference talks about this, as it happens, so I'm certainly not alone in thinking early alert systems are overly aggressive for real world scenarios.

God help you if you're approaching a stopped lane on the left with vehicles parked on the right, the system just goes insane.

I don’t think he’s talking about any of the collision warning stuff. And I honestly have no idea what you’re talking about with these statements. It sounds like maybe something is wrong with your car, or maybe you don’t know how bad of a driver you are?

There was a somewhat recent update which seemed to cause some false alarms with FCW on medium so I did change it to “late”, but I’ve been planning to put it back to see if that still happens. I used it for most of a year on medium/normal and never had an issue, maybe 2-3 false positives and at least as many true ones. Though mostly I’d go months without hearing from it at all.

 

[DrDabbles]

I’ve had very different experiences, including the other night when I picked up my mom and stepdad from the airport. My stepdad sat up front and had some idea of what was going on, but my mom had no idea until we were almost home that it wasn’t just me driving.

I’ve had similar experiences with co-workers and friends. It’s only in rare cases where it aborts a lane change and abruptly shifts back, or is too aggressive about slowing to let a car merge in, that anyone ever asks “what was that?” or “was that you or the car?”

To describe my conclusions about autopilot-

• In light traffic it's fine and following lanes, handling some interchanges, and some exits. It fails frequently at overpasses. It prefers the right-most lane and fails miserably when approaching a vehicle on on onramp by slamming on the brakes to allow the person onto the highway.
• In medium traffic it fails constantly with unnecessary or aborted land changes, jerky following of traffic, cutting faster moving traffic off, not moving out of lanes as faster moving traffic approaches. Traffic volume likely keeps it out of the right-most lane.
• In heavy traffic, I occasionally get a request to move to a different lane and need to dismiss it every time it's suggested. Lane changes are too timid in heavy traffic, but for the most part keeping it in my current lane works fine and that's the choice it makes 80% of the time. If I don't disable HOV lane preference, it will demand I move to the HOV lane no matter what, and I tend to turn off AP for this reason after a while. Stops and starts are jerky no matter the follow distance or chill setting. Heavy traffic mostly works though.

So, because nobody here is doing rigid, repeatable, scientific testing, everything is anecdotal. And because time of day, weather, and traffic volume have a major impact on the system, we're bound to have some people thinking that the system is flawless and others thinking those people are insane. Add on top of that the fact that some drivers are total garbage and think slamming on the brakes on the highway is a perfectly acceptable thing do to, and we've got ourselves a conversation leading to nowhere.

What we need is repeatable test parameters that can highlight failures, successes, and improvements over time.

 

[DrDabbles]

I don’t think he’s talking about any of the collision warning stuff. And I honestly have no idea what you’re talking about with these statements. It sounds like maybe something is wrong with your car, or maybe you don’t know how bad of a driver you are?

There was a somewhat recent update which seemed to cause some false alarms with FCW on medium so I did change it to “late”, but I’ve been planning to put it back to see if that still happens. I used it for most of a year on medium/normal and never had an issue, maybe 2-3 false positives and at least as many true ones. Though mostly I’d go months without hearing from it at all.

I have a very specific scenario that triggers it 100% of the time. In the attached image, the green line is about 575 feet in length. The road is two lanes coming from a 4-day stop light, merges to one lane at the entrance for the parking lot on the right, splits again into two lanes for the left turn, and just out of the picture on the top right corner there's another right turn for a storage facility. The speed limit in this area is 35 MPH and just where the "3A" label is it increases to 45 MPH.

In this scenario, the EAB alert triggers 100% of the time that someone is turning right while the road is merging. The only thing that prevents the warning is to be off the accelerator completely. Not even off it enough to be coasting, but off it 100%. I've filed bug reports for this behavior since the alert feature was enabled and there has been no improvement of change in behavior. I turned the system to whatever the medium setting is and still received the alerts. I'm not going to bother with late alert setting, since I've had zero close calls here.

As for my driving record, I've had no speeding tickets in 10 years, I drive no more than 10MPH over the posted limit on the highway and no more than the posted limit on surface streets. I've had no collisions that weren't someone failing to stop and colliding with me in 20 years. The only partial fault collision I've ever had was early morning driving on black ice, down a descending corner. Neither vehicle was able to stop due to the untreated roads and we collided head-on at 10 MPH or so.

You all can call my behavior into question, and that's fine. I've disabled the alerts because my fiance found driving in the vehicle to be unenjoyable. It dings the entire time we're parking or pulling into my garage, it dings if I go through a Dunkin' drive through, it alerts 100% of the time in the scenario I've attached, and the volume of the AP engage/disengage matches the volume of the playing media which is infuriating. For these reasons, I've disabled as many of the alerts as I possibly can, because I don't need them and they're happening at times when my passenger(s) don't expect my behavior to lead to a collision.

 

[BrandonLive]

To describe my conclusions about autopilot-

• In light traffic it's fine and following lanes, handling some interchanges, and some exits. It fails frequently at overpasses. It prefers the right-most lane and fails miserably when approaching a vehicle on on onramp by slamming on the brakes to allow the person onto the highway.
• In medium traffic it fails constantly with unnecessary or aborted land changes, jerky following of traffic, cutting faster moving traffic off, not moving out of lanes as faster moving traffic approaches. Traffic volume likely keeps it out of the right-most lane.
• In heavy traffic, I occasionally get a request to move to a different lane and need to dismiss it every time it's suggested. Lane changes are too timid in heavy traffic, but for the most part keeping it in my current lane works fine and that's the choice it makes 80% of the time. If I don't disable HOV lane preference, it will demand I move to the HOV lane no matter what, and I tend to turn off AP for this reason after a while. Stops and starts are jerky no matter the follow distance or chill setting. Heavy traffic mostly works though.

So, because nobody here is doing rigid, repeatable, scientific testing, everything is anecdotal. And because time of day, weather, and traffic volume have a major impact on the system, we're bound to have some people thinking that the system is flawless and others thinking those people are insane. Add on top of that the fact that some drivers are total garbage and think slamming on the brakes on the highway is a perfectly acceptable thing do to, and we've got ourselves a conversation leading to nowhere.

What we need is repeatable test parameters that can highlight failures, successes, and improvements over time.

I don’t think it’s flawless by any means, but I don’t have any of the issues you listed on a regular basis and I use AP every day (admittedly on mostly the same, well-supported route).

My main feedback is that it tries to get over to the right in anticipation of an exit far too early sometimes, e.g. when there is a lot of traffic merging onto the highway from an on-ramp within a couple miles of the exit.

In light traffic it does well for me, with the occasional case where I apply the accelerator to encourage it to change lanes in front of a car rather than behind, or to stop it from trying to slow down too much to let someone merge in (when they have plenty of time and room to merge in behind me).

Most of the time I’m in medium or heavy traffic though, and it does well in those situations. I use the on-screen button to stop it from changing lanes too early, and occasionally help it with lane changes by feathering the accelerator (or manually initiating one with the turn signal).

I haven’t seen any real overpass problems or interchange problems (since they fixed support for my home split exit a long while back). I do see aborted lane changes especially on the 520 bridge, and I do wish they’d fix that as that’s the main thing a passenger (and other traffic) will notice and be concerned about.