Things my wife said about Navigate on Autopilot tonight

[SammichLover]

Wife: "Why is it so jerky?"

Me: "Well, it can decelerate somewhat abruptly while on freeway interchanges..."

Wife: "It's not just around corners, it's all the time on the freeway; why do you use it if it is so bad?"

Me: "Well, I'm trying it out; I think maybe you notice less if you're driving"

Wife: "Well, I notice it. It's ok to try it out if you're the only one in the car, but it isn't cool to do it otherwise"

Me: ...

Wife: If you keep trying to use it, I'm going to stop riding in this car, and we're going to have to take my car*. It's not relaxing.

Me: <disengages Autopilot for remainder of trip>

<a couple minutes pass>

Wife: It's much smoother now. Did you turn it off?

Me: Yes, I did.

Wife: I'm much more relaxed now.


* My wife's car is a Chevrolet Spark EV. That tells you something.

You can't make this stuff up!

Here's hoping that Tesla discovers low pass filters soon.

So you're asking here for references for a good San Diego family law attorney?

I suspect this varies a lot by local driving behaviors. I commuted for a week with a family friend that is otherwise unconvinced by Tesla vehicles as a mode of transportation, and they were happy with EAP's performance.

<edit> Oh wait, you were using NoA. Yeah, I don't use that with anyone else in the vehicle. I rarely use it when I'm alone. Maybe this was the difference?


P.S. She was less-so tolerant of my driving. Being a coward and all.

 

[sperkin]

Everytime I turn on NoA, I turn it off within 2 minutes. It makes stupid decisions by picking the wrong lane and it takes forever to change into that lane. For example a space that fits one and half car in length, the Model 3 will not take it. It will dip in out like its scared of it and it pisses of other drivers on the road. No one has the patience to give you a bus length to make a lane change. I have many people high beam me on NoA. I'm embarrassed to use it.

Many drivers in LA can make a lane change inches from other vehicles but NoA won't do it. It also need to perform 2 lanes changes in under 50 yards because there are complicated freeways in LA where the carpool splits into two when you enter the Carpool lane. Everytime there, the car will go for the divider trying to kill me. It can't enter the carpool lane and then take the left split ASAP.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

It makes stupid decisions by picking the wrong lane and it takes forever to change into that lane. For example a space that fits one and half car in length, the Model 3 will not take it. I

I'm no fan of NoA (see this thread), but I would suggest you disable unconfirmed lane change to start with. You can then just request lane changes when you want them. The downside is there will be a lot of dinging at you as it wants to spastically change lanes. But at least you can control the lane changes.

It probably won't work in the situations you describe though. Has to be easy...

 

[NoMoGas]

Yes, but a completely solvable one! The only question is when/if they will get around to fixing it. There was a claim earlier that this is dealt with by the neural net, but I am not so sure about that.

How would they fix it? Slow down on the acceleration?

 

[alsetym]

"My car that drives itself doesn't do it the way I would so Ima pout".

FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS!

I've put over 10k kms with the family in the car on AP/NOA, most of that at least one of the 3 is asleep and no complaints from them. Used to be complaints about not smooth enough in our manual VW wagon (in traffic). So I guess that puts it somewhere between perfect and ANY manual transmission car. It's not perfect, and could be smoother, but 'complaints'? Jeesh, special snowflakes!

 

[alsetym]

Oh, and if you are tired of your car beeping at you (lane keep assist, emergency braking etc...) maybe your car is telling you that you have bad driving habits lol. Things like using your signal for lane change and not leaving braking until the last second will almost completely avoid 'unnecessary' warning chimes. YMMV, but I've never had any of the warnings come up except where someone in front of me did something that could have led to an accident and needed my attention immediately.

 

[Fernand]

For reference, I use NOA all the time, whenever it's available, and AS/TACC on city boulevards and on highways wherever NOA is inactive. I'm not as fond of TACC by itself. My wife started out sweating, and swearing, just like when she's being driven by any stranger. And now that she sees the car remains under control, one way or another, she's fine. But then my car's nowhere near as bad a driver as some of the anti-NOA posts suggest.

Yes, the system has that "eager dog off his leash" behavior, and I have wished there was something like an adjustable low pass filter. But then it occurred to me that as a responsible dog owner, I should keep it on leash. And that all I needed to do is USE that max speed roller. In situations where I myself would be pulling back, I back off on the target speed (given that's how it treats it). That has solved most of the issues I had, including entering cloverleaf merges too fast. But then I would never consider it any sort of negative or defeat to tap-up out of Auto when I see a situation that i can handle better, sometimes in-out in rapid succession.

In other words DRIVE the darned beast, don't play blind and then complain that Stevie Wonder's chauffeur is not a 45 year old pro driver with 30 years of experience. 'Cause he's not. Not yet anyway. To people who'd theorize that's more work than just driving in manual, I completely disagree. Trust me, if it was, I'd just stay in manual, since "whatever's easier" is one of my main rules. There are long stretches where I don't need to get involved at all, including Mad Max lane changes.

 

[Electroman]

Mine does none of that. I don’t use NOAP but I use a ton of AP. You can’t tell if it’s on or not...which is a separate issue.

+1.

I have no such issues with EAP. Often my passengers and my wife don't even know that I am on AP. It is that smooth. Even slowing behind a stopped car is now much smoother as it detects the car from really far. The only issue is, if you are coming around a bend and then it abruptly slows down for the stopped car.

On the other hand, I am not a fan of NoA. it changes lanes often unnecessarily. And misses good opportunities to change lanes on heavy traffic. For instance, on very heavy and slow traffic, as I come near my exit, sometimes I change lanes even a mile or two ahead when I get a chance. Interestingly NoA tells me that there is an 'Upcoming land change' but waits forever till the last mile to change and then struggles, when there was a perfect opportunity just a hundred meters earlier.

NoA is a long way to go. The regular EAP is perfect.. almost. Smooth like butter for the most part.

 

[tvad]

NoA tells me that there is an 'Upcoming land change' but waits forever till the last mile to change and then struggles, when there was a perfect opportunity just a hundred meters earlier.

Exactly. NOA misses more lane changes than it makes.

 

[UTMB]

I don’t have NOAP. But do have AP/TACC.
Last week, on I-70 coming back home, AP brakes for shadow of a semi that we are passing.

“Sorry about that.”

“The car did that?”

“Yep”

Nevertheless, I LOVE TACC with autosteer on a long trip. The longer the stretch, the better AP does than I ever could. Of course, I can hold the center of the lane better for a mile, but over the length of a 500 mile trip, there are just enough distractions to make me drift into the other lane a few times. Plus, I think that I’m a lot less tired when all I have to do is make sure that the AP is doing its job.

 

[Plastic6]

Based on your avatar, looks like Autopilot has given you some exciting experiences.

Yes it has! I was in the fast lane in autopilot and a kid tried to pass me doing 75 hit me in the rear. Knocked me out of autopilot and then sent me in the guard rail. Car went in the air about 3-4 feet and were riding on top of the guardrail for about 100 feet. Car then landed back on the ground and we ended up on the shoulder. All airbags deployed and some didn’t deflate which was a issue getting out of the car. I had my 3 year old daughter with me and not a scratch on her. The car did its job and protected us both!! I took a year off of Tesla and then couldn’t do it anymore and purchased the X and love it!

Little advice to anyone with these expensive cars. The person that hit us only had $50,000 coverage. I was lucky that I had gap coverage which paid the loan off since the car was totaled. If you paid $100,000 for your car and put $20,000 down owing $80,000. Gap coverage will only cover loan amount remaining. Just a lesson in learned since I put a fair amount down. I was able to get the loan paid off but was out my $20,000 down. On my Model X I paid nothing down and was lucky to get %.09 rate for 5 years. Hope this is helpful

 

[Enginerd]

NOA misses more lane changes than it makes.

I appreciate that SoCal driving is a challenging environment for NOA. But I struggle with the idea that it fails more often than it succeeds. I've been tracking NOA performance, and my results are showing about 90% success (1730 of 1928 attempts). So generally I can expect it to work most of the time, but I'd better be ready for "other" behavior about 10% of the time. There's been a gradual improvement over time with firmware updates. While it's not 100% reliable, it's still a huge safety improvement having AP on my side, and takes a lot of stress out of my drive. This may not be true in all environments.

That said, my wife doesn't like me using it either... it occasionally jerks her awake.

 

[tvad]

I appreciate that SoCal driving is a challenging environment for NOA. But I struggle with the idea that it fails more often than it succeeds.

I struggle with it too, which is why I basically don’t use NOA.

 

[Dr. J]

I appreciate that SoCal driving is a challenging environment for NOA. But I struggle with the idea that it fails more often than it succeeds. I've been tracking NOA performance, and my results are showing about 90% success (1730 of 1928 attempts). So generally I can expect it to work most of the time, but I'd better be ready for "other" behavior about 10% of the time. There's been a gradual improvement over time with firmware updates. While it's not 100% reliable, it's still a huge safety improvement having AP on my side, and takes a lot of stress out of my drive. This may not be true in all environments.

That said, my wife doesn't like me using it either... it occasionally jerks her awake.

Please take this in the spirit in which it's offered. I reviewed your data, then went back to post # 1 to see what was considered "success." I offer below my improvements on your grading scale.

Scoring system:

• Success (+1 point): Successful lane change, was not shot at by other motorists
• Uncomfortable success (+0.5 points): Successful lane change, but was shot at by other motorist(s)
• AP abort (-0.5 points): Autopilot initiated but aborted lane change (did not complete)
• Driver decline (-0.75 points): NOA indicated intent to change lanes, driver declined on screeen in order to avoid: (1) getting shot by other motorists, or (2) a poor tactical choice
• Driver abort (-1 point): Driver aborted an autopilot-initiated lane change in progress, either for safety or to avoid getting shot at.

Here's my thing: it's way more valuable to me to not jerk my wife awake on a long trip, than to be "relaxed" by having an automated student driver making fairly stupid decisions. I confess I paid for for EAP and FSD, but I'm willing to wait until the sh** actually works and can drive on a highway nearly as well as I can.

The best part of this is: it's fun to drive this car, so I'm not bothered.

 

[tvad]

Please take this in the spirit in which it's offered. I reviewed your data, then went back to post # 1 to see what was considered "success." I offer below my improvements on your grading scale.

Scoring system:

• Success (+1 point): Successful lane change, was not shot at by other motorists
• Uncomfortable success (+0.5 points): Successful lane change, but was shot at by other motorist(s)
• AP abort (-0.5 points): Autopilot initiated but aborted lane change (did not complete)
• Driver decline (-0.75 points): NOA indicated intent to change lanes, driver declined on screeen in order to avoid: (1) getting shot by other motorists, or (2) a poor tactical choice
• Driver abort (-1 point): Driver aborted an autopilot-initiated lane change in progress, either for safety or to avoid getting shot at.

Here's my thing: it's way more valuable to me to not jerk my wife awake on a long trip, than to be "relaxed" by having an automated student driver making fairly stupid decisions. I confess I paid for for EAP and FSD, but I'm willing to wait until the sh** actually works and can drive on a highway nearly as well as I can.

The best part of this is: it's fun to drive this car, so I'm not bothered.

Damn fine post. Wish I’d written it. Kudos.

 

[SanDiegoM3]

Wife: "Why is it so jerky?"

Me: "Well, it can decelerate somewhat abruptly while on freeway interchanges..."

Wife: "It's not just around corners, it's all the time on the freeway; why do you use it if it is so bad?"

Me: "Well, I'm trying it out; I think maybe you notice less if you're driving"

Wife: "Well, I notice it. It's ok to try it out if you're the only one in the car, but it isn't cool to do it otherwise"

Me: ...

Wife: If you keep trying to use it, I'm going to stop riding in this car, and we're going to have to take my car*. It's not relaxing.

Me: <disengages Autopilot for remainder of trip>

<a couple minutes pass>

Wife: It's much smoother now. Did you turn it off?

Me: Yes, I did.

Wife: I'm much more relaxed now.


* My wife's car is a Chevrolet Spark EV. That tells you something.

You can't make this stuff up!

Here's hoping that Tesla discovers low pass filters soon.

What is your follow distance set at? If you’re a 1 then it’s going to be very jerky. I recommend nothing less than 3 in a freeway moving at speed. If you run a 5 you’ll be very comfortable as the car provides enough space for people to merge through your lane.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

What is your follow distance set at? If you’re a 1 then it’s going to be very jerky. I recommend nothing less than 3 in a freeway moving at speed. If you run a 5 you’ll be very comfortable as the car provides enough space for people to merge through your lane.

Following distance was 6. It was severely challenged by the 163S south of the split from I-15S then getting onto 52 west. That is what elicited the response from my wife. Lots of lane changes and required adjustments from AP to adapt to the speed of other vehicles as I got over to the right lane to hit 52. I have unconfirmed lane change disabled, but of course let it do the commanded lane changes - as it recommends them to me, I hit the blinker to give it the go-ahead - assuming it is a sensible lane change.

I tend to think I am just a smooth driver (as most but not all people are), so my wife is used to that. As helpfully suggested earlier, perhaps if I started driving poorly then Autopilot would be more acceptable/less of a shock.

I should add that the jerking actually does not bother me at all when I am alone in the car - because I nearly always know why it is jerking, or am expecting a rough patch. Every now and again it surprises me of course with an aborted lane change, but generally I don’t mind using it alone.

 

[run-the-joules]

The other half knows that if she doesn’t like it, she can drive herself but I will still take my car. She’s fine with AP now.

 

[SanDiegoM3]

Following distance was 6. It was severely challenged by the 163S south of the split from I-15S then getting onto 52 west. That is what elicited the response from my wife. Lots of lane changes and required adjustments from AP to adapt to the speed of other vehicles as I got over to the right lane to hit 52. I have unconfirmed lane change disabled, but of course let it do the commanded lane changes - as it recommends them to me, I hit the blinker to give it the go-ahead - assuming it is a sensible lane change.

I tend to think I am just a smooth driver (as most but not all people are), so my wife is used to that. As helpfully suggested earlier, perhaps if I started driving poorly then Autopilot would be more acceptable/less of a shock.

I should add that the jerking actually does not bother me at all when I am alone in the car - because I nearly always know why it is jerking, or am expecting a rough patch. Every now and again it surprises me of course with an aborted lane change, but generally I don’t mind using it alone.

Funny, that’s almost my neighborhood freeway interchange. I’m off the 163 by the 805.

I’d generally recommend turning off autopilot for interchanges when you have a passenger. It’s simply not smooth and even I don’t do it unless I want to test the system.

The best parts of autopilot are long freeway drives with no interchanges.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

How would they fix it? Slow down on the acceleration?

Yeah, slow down the onset of acceleration (or deceleration).

As described above, they need to take the "edges" off of the acceleration. No sudden changes in acceleration...just ease into it. This does not mean you can't accelerate as quickly - you can compensate for the slower onset by having slightly higher peak acceleration/deceleration - and it would probably feel better. There are probably practical or safety reasons for why they haven't yet smoothed it - but who knows.

In the case of an inconsistent driver in front, who is traveling on average at a constant speed but is accelerating and decelerating constantly, it could just add some tolerance to the desired following distance. As long as TACC didn't have to follow at a perfect distance, and had some latitude (say plus or minus 0.5 seconds), it could really smooth out the jerkiness - it really doesn't have to change speed at all. I think this may be the reason some people suggest the longer following distance - it's possible the system is less jumpy when the distances are increased. Personally I haven't noticed much difference though, and when there is merging traffic and lane changing and interchanges it really doesn't matter - there's going to be jerking, as currently implemented, regardless of the set following distance.