No matter who was doing what with any amount of technology or without the technology, there is a very simple and basic rule of the road, “you must operate your vehicle within a safe distance of the vehicle ahead of you. It’s designed for manners of she did, he did, situations.
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Ticket for Lane change
- Thread starter des16
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No matter who was doing what with any amount of technology or without the technology, there is a very simple and basic rule of the road, “you must operate your vehicle within a safe distance of the vehicle ahead of you. It’s designed for manners of she did, he did, situations.
First, I had a similar experience dealing with several police over reacting to a complaint about me from a city part employee. I even was handcuffed for the first time in my life. In my case I was lucky that several of the responding police were sane enough to quiet down the first responding officer. I know how this can get out of hand.
Your lesson from this incident should be to have a formatted flash drive recording your video and have "record on honk" enabled. That is the easiest way to save the recording without having to think how to touch the icon to save the video, although in your case a honk may just make things worse.
My advice is just to calmly explain to the judge exactly what happened and put yourself at his/her mercy. You might get lucky and the cop may not even show up after she thinks about what she did. You might suggest that Tesla cooperates with the courts to produce video proof to support your position. However, that argument is a long shot.
It's very very wrong. How to correct that behavior, I don't know, but doctors protecting doctors makes me ill.
I come from a family of 4 doctors, but now that I take care of my 91-yr old mom, and have seen medical incompetence protected by the medical establishment, I feel sick.
IdaBish
Member
In the current health climate, I would ask for body cams of all four officers to illustrate how they potentially put your health at risk, if they were not keeping their distance. Especially if you were masked. It's good you have the car video!
HighZ
Member
I thought the video was very interesting and this post also points to the fact that the police need to be aware of tendencies of self-driving cars.
At 0:25, the trooper is second car on left at the light. The OP accelerates briskly and I am sure this got the trooper's attention - nothing wrong with that, but that could potentially have been seen as an aggressive move. Even as they both pass the next intersection, the trooper slows down, but then accelerates just as the OP moves over. Nothing ever was done abruptly. But the trooper is getting a little more tee'd.
Seeing the right turn signal on for so long may make the trooper think that the OP is drunk, so now definitely has their attention and starts following. The final straw could have been at the last stop sign / left turn. The OP makes a turn in front of a car going the opposite direction. Nothing wrong with that either and we have all taken the opportunity to find the gap in traffic, but it forces the trooper to stop as he/she was pulling out.
I think the trooper was going to pull over the OP no matter what after exiting the freeway, and was waiting for something else to happen, which was that left turn. The fact that they did all the blood/breathalyzer tests make me think that they thought for sure they would find a DUI, but instead just learned about a few quirks of Tesla's and how they drive - fast acceleration and AI-seeking lane changes. I think showing the video in court especially against the the trooper's video will be an important lesson that they need to be more aware of the capabilities of self-driving cars.
Anyway, my guess is that this will be dismissed. Perhaps the troopers were wrong as to what they did AFTER the stop, but I don't think you can say the stop was totally unjustified from the perspective of someone that is clueless about Teslas.
At 0:25, the trooper is second car on left at the light. The OP accelerates briskly and I am sure this got the trooper's attention - nothing wrong with that, but that could potentially have been seen as an aggressive move. Even as they both pass the next intersection, the trooper slows down, but then accelerates just as the OP moves over. Nothing ever was done abruptly. But the trooper is getting a little more tee'd.
Seeing the right turn signal on for so long may make the trooper think that the OP is drunk, so now definitely has their attention and starts following. The final straw could have been at the last stop sign / left turn. The OP makes a turn in front of a car going the opposite direction. Nothing wrong with that either and we have all taken the opportunity to find the gap in traffic, but it forces the trooper to stop as he/she was pulling out.
I think the trooper was going to pull over the OP no matter what after exiting the freeway, and was waiting for something else to happen, which was that left turn. The fact that they did all the blood/breathalyzer tests make me think that they thought for sure they would find a DUI, but instead just learned about a few quirks of Tesla's and how they drive - fast acceleration and AI-seeking lane changes. I think showing the video in court especially against the the trooper's video will be an important lesson that they need to be more aware of the capabilities of self-driving cars.
Anyway, my guess is that this will be dismissed. Perhaps the troopers were wrong as to what they did AFTER the stop, but I don't think you can say the stop was totally unjustified from the perspective of someone that is clueless about Teslas.
Dariushd
Member
If you had a USB stick in the car, but did NOT hit the icon to save the dashcam footage, you may still be in luck. If you mount the USB stick on a computer, on it, you should be able to find a dashcam folder that has a ton of temporary video files in it. When you "save" a dashcam video from your car by pressing the icon, it simply moves 10 minutes of video into a "keep" folder. Even though you may not see that footage as "saved" it may be in that temporary folder until the usb stick runs out of memory and the car over-writes it. Just dig around the dashcam folder on your usb stick on a PC or Mac, you may find what you're looking for.
They already pulled the videos off.
Initial thoughts:
1) I love my Tesla
2) Although I love AP on “simple roads” I’m currently 50/50 feeling about on AP.
3) I hope things work out 100% for the OP!
Video:
1) While the AP drove correctly, the behavior appeared abnormal and brought suspicion
2) Most manual driving cars travel well above the speed limit, look for police, and get the hell out of their way!
3) So the Tesla drives at or very close to the speed limit, a rarity. AP drives slower and owner / operators are less relaxed and content.
4) Around 2:00 the Tesla applies the lane-change blinker “forever” while other cars are passing... THIS combined with the above got the officer’s attention!
5) Some of the OP’s and officer’s behavior at the stop might be unknown.
6) Officers were probably agitated about the mask or something. It is rare to have three police cars show up!
* Don’t let yourself be followed by a police car. Make a few turns or stop at a store and get rid of the tail.
Dealing with police: (Advice from an officer, and has served me very well.);
1) Most officers are good people, and they respond positively IF you act communicate effectively. (Special rules apply... I’m not going to debate if those rules should apply... it’s just the way it is.)
2) Attitude is EVERYTHING when dealing with police.
3) You are not obligated to pull over immediately. Slow down, turn on your blinker, turn on the interior lights, and wave hello to the officer.
4) Look for a safe (but not suspicious place) to pull over. At least a nice wide shoulder where the officer will not be standing in the lane of traffic.
5) Put the car in park, turn on the interior lights, roll down all of the windows, put both hands on the steering wheel.
6) When the officer walks up to the car, get the first word, “Hello Officer!”
7) When asked, “License, registration and insurance ID Card.” Reply, “Of course, my license is in my wallet, MAY I GET IT?”
8) Follow up with “My insurance card is in my console, MAY I GET IT?”
Congratulations! You just established yourself as a “friendly” and differentiated yourself from 90% of the morons that officers have to deal with every day!
I’ve actually had officers not even bother to look at my insurance card and apologize for stopping me.
* If the Officer happens to be a jerk, don’t argue. Let your lawyer sort it out.
* Bonus point for police supporter plates.
Q: “Do you know how fast you were going?”
A: “Gee officer, I had a really bad day with a lot on my mind. How fast was I going?”
Most officers are great people.
Treat them as such, and things generally work out well.
Keep situational awareness when on AP.
Know the traffic around you, especially police presence.
1) I love my Tesla
2) Although I love AP on “simple roads” I’m currently 50/50 feeling about on AP.
3) I hope things work out 100% for the OP!
Video:
1) While the AP drove correctly, the behavior appeared abnormal and brought suspicion
2) Most manual driving cars travel well above the speed limit, look for police, and get the hell out of their way!
3) So the Tesla drives at or very close to the speed limit, a rarity. AP drives slower and owner / operators are less relaxed and content.
4) Around 2:00 the Tesla applies the lane-change blinker “forever” while other cars are passing... THIS combined with the above got the officer’s attention!
5) Some of the OP’s and officer’s behavior at the stop might be unknown.
6) Officers were probably agitated about the mask or something. It is rare to have three police cars show up!
* Don’t let yourself be followed by a police car. Make a few turns or stop at a store and get rid of the tail.
Dealing with police: (Advice from an officer, and has served me very well.);
1) Most officers are good people, and they respond positively IF you act communicate effectively. (Special rules apply... I’m not going to debate if those rules should apply... it’s just the way it is.)
2) Attitude is EVERYTHING when dealing with police.
3) You are not obligated to pull over immediately. Slow down, turn on your blinker, turn on the interior lights, and wave hello to the officer.
4) Look for a safe (but not suspicious place) to pull over. At least a nice wide shoulder where the officer will not be standing in the lane of traffic.
5) Put the car in park, turn on the interior lights, roll down all of the windows, put both hands on the steering wheel.
6) When the officer walks up to the car, get the first word, “Hello Officer!”
7) When asked, “License, registration and insurance ID Card.” Reply, “Of course, my license is in my wallet, MAY I GET IT?”
8) Follow up with “My insurance card is in my console, MAY I GET IT?”
Congratulations! You just established yourself as a “friendly” and differentiated yourself from 90% of the morons that officers have to deal with every day!
I’ve actually had officers not even bother to look at my insurance card and apologize for stopping me.
* If the Officer happens to be a jerk, don’t argue. Let your lawyer sort it out.
* Bonus point for police supporter plates.
Q: “Do you know how fast you were going?”
A: “Gee officer, I had a really bad day with a lot on my mind. How fast was I going?”
Most officers are great people.
Treat them as such, and things generally work out well.
Keep situational awareness when on AP.
Know the traffic around you, especially police presence.
EDIT: Just read you have a video. Make sure you have it in several formats for the judge. Id have a flash drive and convert it to run on a regular DVD player. Lawyers are cool but you aren't getting any harassment money so I wouldn't bother. If you do really want one just go with one of those $200 ticket clinic types.
The extended blinker being on is a red flag for me. I recently turned off auto lane change bc my M3 was attempting lane changes in heavy traffic way too often. I found myself overriding the blinker frequently to avoid annoyed drivers around me. I would have not allowed blinker to be on for that long and not making lane change. The blinker is very bright too.
This is a great example of why I don't use NOA. It has a tendency to cut off fast moving cars. It also has a tendency to leave its blinker on for a long time while trying to change lanes. Until they are able to have the rear camera evaluate approaching traffic from behind - I don't see it ever working well enough for me. Also, normal drivers generally either don't put their blinkers on until they are ready to change lanes or if they forget or don't realize that it is on. I think it is entirely reasonable for the officer to have made a stop based on that style of driving late at night.
I am Telsa owner for 5 years and a huge fan and just traded in my X for a Y. I also purchased FSD so I am committed to the future of FSD. It just isn't quite there yet.
I am Telsa owner for 5 years and a huge fan and just traded in my X for a Y. I also purchased FSD so I am committed to the future of FSD. It just isn't quite there yet.
Did you see the CyberTruck has two rear mounted cameras ? I wonder what effect this will have on lane changes and such.
Personally I would not fight it, as you will most likely lose. I have believed since day one of NoAP that the lane changes are sometimes dangerously abrupt, feeling jerky/reckless, without enough blinker warning to be safe or legal, and it's just rude. And this is from an M-car driver. NoAP often does not even give the basic two-seconds of signal prior to the change. I now always have confirm changes on now so it never does this. I have mentioned this on the Tesla forums but of course that just leads to endless berating by the fanboys.
Des16, do you live in Colorado? Was the trooper a petite blond with a Kiwi accent? I got a ticket from a trooper with this description for avoiding an accident some years ago in another vehicle. A friend’s father, retired Colorado State Trooper, said she should have never issued the ticket. Too late, I had already paid.
ALWAYS, get a lawyer and fight it. Barring any extenuating or extreme circumstances, it’s usually a 3-minute conversation between the Prosecutor and your attorney, followed by 2-minutes in front of a judge... resulting in a $$$ plea bargain, no points, and sealed record.
Depending on the entirety of events at the stop, the video evidence might win entirely for the OP.
MXLRplus
Active Member
I have a video of NoA illegally changing lanes into the gore point area during an exit. It got confused briefly, and was going to veer left, then finally turned right, and cross the gore area into the exit ramp. If a cop saw that, I'd get a ticket and it would be my fault.
After the Model X episode in the Bay Area, I would think it would follow the Golden Rule: "You can always take the next ramp".
After the Model X episode in the Bay Area, I would think it would follow the Golden Rule: "You can always take the next ramp".
MXLRplus
Active Member
Kid? You believe 26 years old is a child?
A) I have air rifles that can kill humans at close range.
B) Any rifle should always be treated like a high powered rifle. Who would point a rifle that could be mistaken for a .30-06 out their hotel window after Las Vegas? Somebody with a death wish.
Sometimes bad things just happen. Tragic situation. A calamity of events with a bad outcome.
Des16 was there any final closure on this? Just curious how things turned out with video evidence.
Ummmmmmm it happened on Saturday and today is Monday.
I am not sure if he even has a court date yet for his hearing.
I am not sure if he even has a court date yet for his hearing.
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